And decided not to release such games as Rage and Doom 4 on Linux.

So you’re really saying that Linux users are dumb, buying “limited edition” crap when they could’ve gotten the regular Windows version for cheap and just downloaded the client?

And you also have no idea of history — again. Loki’s sales of Quake III Arena sucked. And that was not id’s fault, it was Loki’s fault. They were desperate to publish this game, and in doing so they accepted less-than-ideal conditions.

If you take a close look at all boxes of id software on shelf none of them are really from id. Id sells a license describing package to a distributor the distributor mass produces as per the prescribed packaging.

Wow! Big news. You figured that out entirely by yourself? Yes, Quake III Arena (for Windows) was published by Activision. And I never claimed otherwise.

Loki is just a distributor in the case of Quake III for Linux no control over look at all that is id. Only thing Loki had was control over price. They proved the higher price could be sold on the Linux market no problems.

Again, what’s with this proof thing? The only thing they proved, if anything, was that Linux users who bought this game from Loki are dumb. And not so many Linux users did, as Loki’s Quake III Arena sales were not good.

That is the point id never tried to recover the Linux costs even that loki and other distributors proved it was possible.

Which costs? The Linux ports were all handled internally at id by id staff. These were side jobs.

So id has no one-less to blame for losing there shirt over producing linux versions than themselves. If you do nothing to recover you costs you really have no ground to complain at a loss in that department.

Again, what’s with id!? Id’s Linux versions were meant as a courtesy. Loki Games totally mishandled the release of Quake III Arena, not id. They were stupid enough to offer only a “limited edition”. They were stupid enough to let id offer the game binaries on their servers, thereby making it possible for Linux gamers to grab a Windows version for cheap.

So since id we know did nothing to recover costs using them as a example against what valve is doing is pointless.

Is it? Absolutely not. The simple truth is that the Linux community was solely interested in the source code releases of id’s engines, so that they could build some crappy games.

No, I am just some guy who got sick of bending of truth and downright untruth perpetrated here unscrutinized. Guess who’s my primary target here?

Historically it has been basically double the asking price of the Windows version if the Linux and Windows version are released at the same time

Historically, you just pulled everything out of your back side when confronted by someone else on any subject matter (CALs, Russian space probe, etc.) Things are getting really boring here really fast, so either you substantiate your argument, or don’t say anything at all.

Moving on…

id linux versions never came in a paper box for retail they were metal boxed sets.

As CW has already mentioned, there are no box sets for Linux versions of any iD games. Did you forget to land your space probe before replying to my post?

They are majorally different crowd. Lot of windows users only start buying when its on the shelf or reviewed. Linux people will leap of faith and take the failure.

More pointless arm-waving. At least I must say this is less ridiculous than your claims about networks affecting the number of CALs required, though.

How does not selling Linux versions when making Linux version like id was make any sense at all.

As CW points out, iD offered Linux clients for Windows game titles. That’s all.

Did the exercise yield more sales as a result? I think Carmack has the best anwser to that question, which, BTW, goes along the line of “goodwill doesn’t pay the bills”.

Loki proved with the higher mark up it could be sold. The metal box was done at id request its in that Loki information over it. Loki would have preferred to go there normal cardboard since that would have been more profit for them. Look at the rest of Loki games they are cardboard.

The reality here you don’t understand much “least not from id themselves” is a joke. If you take a close look at all boxes of id software on shelf none of them are really from id. Id sells a license describing package to a distributor the distributor mass produces as per the prescribed packaging.

Loki is just a distributor in the case of Quake III for Linux no control over look at all that is id. Only thing Loki had was control over price. They proved the higher price could be sold on the Linux market no problems.

Chris Weig
“Id released Linux clients for free, and you had to buy the Windows retail versions of the games for the data files.”
That is the point id never tried to recover the Linux costs even that loki and other distributors proved it was possible.

So id has no one-less to blame for losing there shirt over producing linux versions than themselves. If you do nothing to recover you costs you really have no ground to complain at a loss in that department.

So since id we know did nothing to recover costs using them as a example against what valve is doing is pointless.

oldman
“The fact is is you can’t”
Some case I can some case I cannot. Mind you me being moderate running windows virtual todo some-things is not off the cards to me just like you running linux inside a virtual machine to achieve some-things.

You are a Microsoft Advocate who is a Moderate. I am a Linux Advocate who is a Moderate. So we really do fight like cats and dogs. Because there is not one way to achieve what you need todo oldman.

Brillo
–How much extra? $5? $10? $20?–
Historically it has been basically double the asking price of the Windows version if the Linux and Windows version are released at the same time.

Now if you delay the Linux release by 3 months about the max is 1/4 above Windows price. If its past 12 months past the release data basically forget about Linux guys paying you anything for the Linux version. For some reason the price Linux people are willing to pay is directly linked to the release date compared to other platforms particularly its first release date. Yes one that released at the same time you will still have Linux people years latter still willing to pay the double.

Brillo Mods also keep your sales going. Mods keep games in fashion for longer so you sell more copies.

Brillo very few games id has release early enough to make profit from the Linux world. In a lot of ways releasing first on Linux could be highly profitable. Linux people are more tolerant of bugs.

Brillo
id linux versions never came in a paper box for retail they were metal boxed sets. They also had double the cover price. Now others have done normal box and double the cover price with Linux it works. Main reason id did it was so Linux version would not be mixed up with Windows version. If the windows users were paying the most they would have got the metal box. The Linux versions did not contain windows binaries and you did not have the option of downloading the windows binaries to convert them back to Windows. So only people buying them were Linux people and they did sell out of them.

This is where things go badly wrong for id. You want to sell Linux versions and make some money. Placing Linux binary with installer to convert a Windows disc on a web server is not exactly a good idea to achieve this. This achieves that Linux uses by Windows discs and convert them. So paying no extra to cover their development.

Brillo so id problem is miss management. Linux world also will pre order and wait. So you can know basically how many Linux discs you need to make and make none to waste. The funny part is a pre order for Linux version at the same time as the Windows version releases still gets Linux people paying double. So for the Linux people you don’t have to press 1 extra disc. No waste.

They are majorally different crowd. Lot of windows users only start buying when its on the shelf or reviewed. Linux people will leap of faith and take the failure.

Brillo not supporting opengl on windows makes it a lot more costly to goto OS X, OSi, Android and Linux.

So result of doing that is games not being ported to any of those 4 markets due to lack of profitability todo so. Selection of toolkit has big effect on how much the porting will cost. Lower the porting cost the less money you have to make for a market to be profitable.

Brillo
“The initial release of any title for Linux costs money.
Any subsequent update for the title on Linux costs money.
Everything you do on Linux costs money.”
Since this is true. How does not selling Linux versions when making Linux version like id was make any sense at all. Even when id was doing the metal boxed sets they still were releasing .bin files on web sites to convert the Windows versions.

Valve is not being this stupid. So valve stands a chance of making a profit from the Linux move.

Really how was id attempting to make profit from the Linux versions. You look close they were not. They were using it for good will and forgot to make profit from it.

Let’s forget for a moment that the paragraphs your have cited have essentially nothing to do with Linux. Basically what you are saying is:

1) Open-source game engines.
2) Attract modder communities.
3) ???
4) Profit!

That sounds strangely like the underpants gnomes from South Park, doesn’t it?

That money has to come from somewhere, and no money means no development. “Goodwill” doesn’t pay the bills and it never will. End of story.”

For id Software, the development of the FLOSS version was used to attract developers:
” the team of innovators also made DOOM’s source code available to their fan base, encouraging would-be game designers to modify the game and create their own levels, or “mods.” Fans were free to distribute their mods of the game, as long as the updates were offered free of charge to other enthusiasts. The mod community took off, giving the game seemingly eternal life on the Internet. In fact, id discovered many of their current employees and development partners based on mods that were created and distributed over the Internet.”

In this case the fact that that other OS is on most PCs running the software meant that those folks subsidized the GNU/Linux version… That may not be a long-term strategy but it should continue to work for a few more years at least.

You know better. Provide me with the exact replacfemernts of my current tool set and I will consider moving.

The fact is is you can’t p[provide that and you know it!