“What is the experience like on Windows 8 when the end point isn’t touch enabled?
In a word: Bad.”
Face it. A user interface designed for tiny touch screens is not optimal for monitor, keyboard and mouse. Canonical should take note as well…
see Windows 8 – Part 3: As seen through the eyes of a desktop user.
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“Face it. A user interface designed for tiny touch screens is not optimal for monitor, keyboard and mouse. Canonical should take note as well…”
Which would not bode well for android being implemented on classic PC hardware either it would seem.
I tested it earlier in this spring i do agree with that “desktop user”. It was bad indeed and has also amazingly ugly and meaningless UI. It’s hard to believe than others than die-hard Windows-fanboys might like it.
You fool, Mr. Pogson! Touchscreen outdated already. Next gen computers will be on grounds of mind control interface. I’m working this at university together with Microsoft Research Japan. But until then touchscreen next best thing. In fact, next gen touchscreen could solve problem now already. But hardware makers being cheap prevent it. We have tactile touchscreen developed here, solves all problems.
Oldman wrote: “Which would not bode well for android being implemented on classic PC hardware either it would seem”
Somehow all fandroids (Pogson and Ohio in the lead) are convinced that Android is absolutely ready for desktop and they just wait for ARM-based desktop PCs to come out of the factories. Go figure.
Pogson, your spam filter is highly aggressive.
Face it. A user interface designed for tiny touch screens is not optimal for monitor, keyboard and mouse.
That doesn’t matter, as we’ll all be using “smart thingies” from now on. Didn’t you get the memo? You wrote it.
Poll time: Would Robert Pogson divorce his wife if she ever used Windows?
oldman
“Which would not bode well for android being implemented on classic PC hardware either it would seem.”
I have used android 4.0 with keyboard and mouse it works quite well.
I know its odd but Android feels better with a keyboard than without. Mouse also does not make it much better or worse.
Key point that makes windows 8 bad is to access menu requires taking pointer out a particular point of screen. Screws up remote desktop. Also the currently running list is hard to access.
Android saving grace is the prototyping process. Running inside qemu with keyboard and mouse. So surprise androids main interface is fairly mouse sane.
Android is a little heavier on mouse mileage. So touch has had a price on Android but its not disaster zone.
Anyone here already seen “The Dark Knight Rises”? I heard its visual effects were made with GNU/Linux.
Chris Weig
“Tears of Steel” is currently more on my radar.
“Tears of Steele”? I didn’t know Lexington does shorts.
碇シンジ
“You fool, Mr. Pogson! Touchscreen outdated already. Next gen computers will be on grounds of mind control interface.”
It not just microsoft working on brain-machine interfaces. I will excuse this 碇シンジ from your native language “mind control interface” would seam like the correct words. In english the correct name for “mind control interface” is Brain-Machine Interface(BMI). We have too many english movie displaying mind control as evil so the term is not used. You say mind control interface and a lot of english speakers think star trek borg like kind of thing not that nice of a item so BMI is the term used instead.
http://neurogadget.com/2012/03/22/emotiv-and-neurosky-update-developer-tools-more-mind-controlled-apple-devices-anticipated/3728
Simple fact brain-machine interface and Android already can be used. There are some issues with brain-machine interface and privacy. Yes lie detection by the brain-machine interface and emotional reaction detection and other flaws have to be addressed.
Phenom the reality I have used Android as desktop already. Since that is what my tablet runs and it docks to a keyboard and mouse. So basically a desktop computer in every sense of interface. Not using the touch screen feature most of the time. The 10 point touch it has is mostly worthless since I use a stylist if I have to touch the screen. Finger prints on a screen give me headaches if I have to use it for a fair while. My mobile phone sees fingers my tablet does not ever.
Android is a better fit than Windows 8 for desktop usage.
Even for brain–machine interface Android works very well.
Phenom and oldman have you ever used an android tablet with keyboard and mouse and felt how it is. Same with brain-machine interfaces.
Yes there is a reason why Android 4.1 is shipping with at machine voice recondition. As Google Glasses you don’t have a touch screen. So eye tracking and voice are the two prime interfaces with Brain Machine Interface as addon.
NeuroSky and other can be used in combination with Google Glasses to give a more complete interface advantage silent to request android device todo something. Problems bulky to get all the monitoring points to get good data and possible breaches of private thought.
The privacy side of BMI is a very big issue.
Chris Weig item I am watching what is going on I gave the exact name no typo.
碇シンジ does the tactile touchscreen address my problem of human oil on screen creating blur and creating headaches for me. The prototypes I have seen are worse than finger prints on screen.
There is a reason why touch screens will never ever be 100 percent take up. There will always be the percentage like me who will want eye tracking/keyboard-mouse/BMI but not touch due to oil from human skin effecting view ability of screen and giving us physical migraines. If the tactile touch-screens can address that problem maybe a touch screen might interest me for items larger than a phone.
Also if that textured touch screen is the same as I have seen in prototypes its worse than finger prints on a flat touch screen. Image distortion had not been validly considered. Its the image distortion that cause migrates in a percentage of the population.
For the blind a textured screen will be a god send for us who can see texture screen can be the worst nightmare ever made. People forget why so much work went into making glass smooth in the first place.
“I have used android 4.0 with keyboard and mouse it works quite well.”
It would seem however that That something works “quite well” is a relative statement. I can say from my viewpoint of being an active user of the windows 8 RC on my desktop that it to works “quite well” – A fact that I would presume that you would dispute. so making such as statement is IMHO in the end meaningless.
oldman have you attempted to use windows 8 rc remote yet or virtual. That is where its big teeth come out.
The way to return to menu in windows 8 is dud.
Android is a little heavy on mouse mileage. Windows 8 is worse. This is a measurable metric oldman.
Windows XP has lower mouse mileage to get stuff done than Windows 7. Android and Windows 7 are about equal on mouse mileage if driving it by keyboard and mouse.
Those large buttons in metro come at a price.
oldman so even by usage metrices Android 4.0+ is surprisingly good for a interface that works well as touch. Android 2.3 on a large screen metrics for mouse movement was bad but not as bad as Windows 8.
Just because you are getting along with it does not mean Windows 8 is the best in the pack. On metrics it the worst if you wish to use mouse.
Android can be improved for mouse usage by altering display options. But altering those options cripple its touch using. Reason to reduced mouse mileage you have to reduce button size. Yes it is true touch and mouse don’t mix. Android is a reasonable compromise. Windows 8 has gone a little too far on touch friendly at the expense of mouse friendly.
Windows 8 is also higher on click counts to-do a lot of adjustments compared to Android and Windows 7 as well. Even for a touch interface extra clicks is a bad thing.
oldman for someone at a Univeristy go spend some time in GUI design classes particularly the ones covering GUI effectiveness metrics. The problems with Android, Windows XP, Windows 7, Windows 8, KDE and Gnome are simple to spot particularly when you know how to do the metrics to find GUI performance problems.
You think a person like me would let just personal option set my define of quite well. Sorry oldman I am not an incompetent person. I check my self against metrics. Metrics are measurements that take personal option out. If my personal option matches the metrics I don’t have a possible bias.
Your statement was just option so most likely just personal option oldman totally non professional thing todo. Then you wonder why I rip bits out you from time to time.
“oldman have you attempted to use windows 8 rc remote yet or virtual. That is where its big teeth come out.”
Virtual works fine. – No problem getting either menu to work. Are you sure that you arent doing something wrong.
“You think a person like me would let just personal option set my define of quite well. Sorry oldman I am not an incompetent person. I check my self against metrics. Metrics are measurements that take personal option out. If my personal option matches the metrics I don’t have a possible bias.”
So you say, but since you are nothing More than a nameless NYM who SAYS he is usinh metrics, as far as I am concerned this is just more self serving bushwah.
“Your statement was just option so most likely just personal option oldman totally non professional thing todo.”
You are nobody to talk about “professionalism”. Your bullying attitude is a unprofessional as it gets IMHO.
“Then you wonder why I rip bits out you from time to time.”
Rip? hardly. You babble at me sir. Your “ripping” is more often than not a load of crap that you unload in my direction – none of which effects me in the least.
Perhaps it is time that I treat you as the joke that others see you as Hamster.
oldman wrote, of oiaohm, “You are nobody to talk about “professionalism”. Your bullying attitude is a unprofessional as it gets IMHO.”
At the same time, oldman, you think M$ is just in it for the money yet M$ is the biggest bully on the planet, coercing OEMs, ISVs, retailers, consumers and businesses to use their products without any choice. Not only does M$ commit individual acts of bullying, they organize campaigns of bullying such as audits to allow salesmen to enter a business to sell more licences. The whole business of Linux supposedly violating M$’s software patents was a bullying tactic to scare businesses away from using GNU/Linux.
oldman
“Virtual works fine. – No problem getting either menu to work. Are you sure that you arent doing something wrong.”
Really I forgot is particular option that ruins it. Auto active window under mouse. So causing nasty issues. Take mouse out window switch to another window automatically no menu comes up. Basically edge of window leaving is bad idea if required you should have option to turn it off and leave a bar.
Now running an os virtual should not be require setting the windows manager of the host OS a particular way.
I have told you the metrics to check. Where the biggest differences are. Number of clicks and mouse mileage.
“Your bullying attitude is a unprofessional as it gets IMHO.”
Your insulting attitude is more unprofessional. You do subtle bullying oldman. I simple don’t mess around. Either I am completely nasty or I am nice.
What oldman you think a professional should hide what they think of you. Sorry I don’t come from that school. I come from the school of I tell you what I think you are if you like it or not. Same with the people I work with. Being call incompetent because I did something incompetent is part of the job is normal. This way I know what I need to be retrained in. No point telling a person they are perfectly competent when they are not does not help them long term.
You underhanded insult all the time oldman. When something does not go your way oldman you say its bushwah. You don’t want to think for one min oldman you are highly bias.
Yes the result of hiding what you are thinking means instead of getting the problem out in the open you will subtly insult a person and attempt to be a smart ass oldman. Yes there is a reason why we don’t follow the stupid idea of professionalism equalling not telling people what you think of them.
Simple fact of the matter do the metrics you will see I am right. Windows 8 is worse by the metrics for mouse usage than Windows 7 or Android. Heck even iOS is better other than the fact you have to go threw an ugly process to connect a mouse.
iOS and Android are both lower on clicks than Windows 8 to perform tasks as well.
Oldman the only way I will start treating you nicer is if you start doing your job and not using personal option to base your judgements. Repeatedly you argue from personal option to the point that no other valid path could exist.
Name one time I have said that people could not be using MS Office. You will find I have not. I also accept the fact is not ever worker will need MS Office. Not every worker needs MS windows either.
This is the reality. Step back do some study oldman on how you are meant to do non bias assessments and learn todo them. You will find I will not call you incompetent anywhere near as regularly since you will stop making what I call stupid and incompetent statements.
Your lack of professionalism at performing your job shows through in your statements oldman. Its the truth.
My blunt nature is my work environment its also part Australian.
Really what is worse oldman a person being nice to your face and backstabbing you without the right for you to defend yourself. Or like me where I tell you straight to your face what I think of you and you know. If I am wrong you can take it up with another power or prove me wrong.
Problem is oldman you are proving me right over and over again that I should tell you off. Because you are repeatability doing things that are non-professional. With far worse long term effects for where you are working than a few insults.
You Linux fans are something else, Mr. O! You all sneered at Win2k and you sneered at XP and you sneered at Vista and you sneered at Windows 7 and now you sneer at Windows 8. Meanwhile Microsoft has taken more than $100B to the bank for Windows license fees and Linux is still barely registering on any meter you choose to try to find a user base.
You search the internet high and low for some sort of complaint to claim that you have personally witnessed as to some possible deficiency in Windows, but your searches are yielding fewer and fewer results and the degree of importance has moved into the trivial category. You had better start looking for a new pasttime, Mr. O, this one is running out of gas.
Mr. Ohio Ham is sitting in his little hut in the Australian outback, where the internet has made him an expert on everything. Sometimes the doctor comes to check on him and gives him his pills. Sometimes someone from the bank comes over to deliver huge amounts of cash which Mr. Ham earned as a consultant. Thanks to his 37 doctorates he can consult on nearly everything. He was deeply saddened when he was once again not awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, even though he had brought peace to the Australian outback with GNU/Linux. He has stated numerous times that he believes this to be the work of a conspiracy involving the makers of “that other OS”.
Clarence Moon wrote, “Linux is still barely registering on any meter”.
Only meters from M$’s partners have that problem. Even Ballmer published a chart wildly greater than ~1%.
Clarence Moon wrote, “your searches are yielding fewer and fewer results and the degree of importance has moved into the trivial category.”
Most of my posts are based on newsfeeds, not my searches. I may search to add some details/links but the problems of M$ and Wintel are widely known.
e.g. Google shows, for 2002, 17800 hits for BSOD. 2012 shows 741000…. and 2012 is only half gone. Oh! I forgot! XP was only on a few machines by 2002 but it’s on hundreds of millions today. M$ did that. It’s M$’s fault that it BSODs.
So, Clarence Moon is wrong again.
“Oldman the only way I will start treating you nicer is if you start doing your job and not using personal option to base your judgements. Repeatedly you argue from personal option to the point that no other valid path could exist.”
IN point of fact you do not “treat” me any way that I ultimately care about Mr. Microsoft Var. You have no standing in my professional life, nor do I have any respect for the pseudo technical bloviating bushwah that you opten post at length in your “answers”. In fact you have been caught out more than enough times talking out your a$$hole by others. For example Mr. expert the Amdahl 470/V6 (not 470/VS – that was a 30 year old memory slip) was a plug compatible for the IBM system 370 Mainframe. It was not a minicomputer by normal definitions, period definition. As far as I am concerned nothing out of your mouth can be taken reliably.
There is no rule set that says that my opinions are not valid sir. In fact my opinions represent a more mainstream truth than the wishful thinking and excuses about the linux desktop that you readily spew. When I deem it necessary you will get more detail, not when you do. I do not owe you any more or any less effort than I deem to put into this floating bull-session right now.
In fact I do not owe you an answer at all, especially When you proceed to jump in (as is your right) to comment on my posted response to Robert Pogson blogs.
“Or like me where I tell you straight to your face what I think of you and you know. If I am wrong you can take it up with another power or prove me wrong.”
Fire away Hamster. Your words mean nothing to me.
Ogh BTW
Chris Weig the anti-trust cases are documented. So its not some unknown conspiracy. Problem is the effects of the anti-trust actions will wear off. We are starting to see signs of that.
oldman
“In fact my opinions represent a more mainstream truth than the wishful thinking and excuses about the linux desktop that you readily spew.”
It was the mainstream view that the world was flat at one point of history. Yes people claimed as a mainstream truth the world was flat as well even that there was evidence disproving it.
This is why as a person who understand history I understand the importance of using metrics.
Amdahl 470/V6 is interesting because it depends if you go by hardware configuration or labeling if its a mainframe or a minicomputer. labeling is a mainframe. Internal hardware design is a minicomputer. Crays internal design is a Mainframe.
Key difference between a minicomputer and a Mainframe. Mainframes have clustering in there hardware designs of the internals and minicomputers don’t.
Again the difference here is I am sorting by metrics oldman not by labeling.
What happened over time the true mainframes disappeared from around a lot of people. What people called mainframes were in fact mini computers that just happened to be highly powerful. Mistaken identity.
The same mistaken identity has happened with the PC. People call PC microcomputers but when you truly do look at the hardware configuration in the modern PC its a minicomputer.
What happened here is the labeling on the outside of the box and what is really inside has ended up out of alignment. Moonshot boxes coming from HP are truly mainframes by hardware configuration.
Blade servers would be another that by hardware configuration is a mainframe design. Matching up to historic mainframe designs. When hardware was not that dependable redundancy was kinda important so you did not loss everything that you were processing just because a valve here or there blew. Yes clustering in mainframes start in the age of valves.
This is the problem oldman too many people looking skin deep at labeling printed on outside of box to wake up that the labeling was wrong.
Its funny the very machine you used is when the historic stuff up of miss labeling of hardware started.
This is why I get up people for not knowing history oldman. Sales men will abuse labels how ever they think they will get sales. Heck a salesman would call a motorbike a car if they knew they could get away with it. Problem is in IT this is exactly what salesman got away with.
“This is why I get up people for not knowing history oldman.”
Woooo, sassy! And when it’s proven that your history is wrong, you just move the dates or change the order of events like you did with your claim about KHTML code being used by Opera. Yet the one thing you won’t do is provide ANY citations to back up your shifting claims.
Why are you afraid? http://mrpogson.com/2012/07/12/wintel-stalls/comment-page-1/#comment-92012
Yonah funny one of those cites you should be able to find yourself. The reference javascript engine it in fact include as a library in Opera.
http://mrpogson.com/2012/07/20/another-city-switching-to-libreoffice/#comment-92265 Due to this stacking and proven hunting khtml will have to wait until another browser topic comes up.
Term Mini Computer and Mainframe computer come from the valve age. The first computers referred to MiniComputers were Analog computers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_frame The wikipedia mentions the change in define. Does not get the early define correct. Processing designs of mainframes early mainframes were highly resistant to hardware failures and the analog computers of the time were not highly resistant to hardware failures.
Yes “central processing unit and main memory of early computer” was referred to as the Main frame of the main frame computer with the storage in other frames. This is why modern day blade servers and moonshoot are very much mainframe. You can have a single frame with all the processor power in it with items like moonshoot and blade servers so you can have a main frame . Look at them they are designed primary with cpu and ram in the one box and storage external. This is mainframe configuration.
If you cannot make a frame full of processor power without storage other than ram with a decently high density you are not looking at a mainframe design computer.
Normally you will find you are looking at a mini computer design labeled mainframe.
minicomputer term disappears for a few years when the mainframe term changes and analog computers mostly disappear. mid-1960 when it turns up again as digital computers. Just like the analog these minicomputers were not cluster design and they had storage and processing in one box just like the analog computers called minicomputers. Lot of sources think the term minicomputer was new mid-1960′s. It was not it was a old term dug back out.
The reality here I have not rewrote history at all. There is a case of 1 lost link. Between the early analog minicomputers and the digital minicomputers that come latter.
Yonah sales men abused terms to sell product. Labeling stuff mainframe to mark a huge machine when in hardware design it is a mini computer.
“Later, the term was used to distinguish high-end commercial machines from less powerful units.” Mentioned in wikipedia you also find this noted in dictionaries and other sources. That the term mainframe stopped being used as per is formal define. So being reduced to nothing more than a branding label. Yet no formal define anywhere accepts this label items that cannot have a true Main frame of processing and ram as a mainframe computer.
This is where oldman and others stuff up. Same thing started happening with the term microcomputer due to PC’s as well.
So mainframe computers, minicomputers and microcomputers exist today. Mainframe mostly would be your big suppers and clusters…. ie big iron still as what mainframes have always been since in those huge system having Main Frames full of processing power makes sense with storage elsewhere. Minicomputers your general servers and most x86 desktops. Microcomputers your mobile phones tablets…..
There are a few x86 accept-ions like the like some versions of the x86 mini computers that were not designed to be upgraded in anyway shape or form so were very powerful microcomputers.
As long as you don’t fall for salesmen abusing terms against formal define.
Yonah abused terms happen all the time like people using wicked to mean good. An abused term always returned to its defined meaning evidentially.
Poll time: Would Robert Pogson divorce his wife if she ever used Windows?
I think the little lady would have an accident in the garden. Something along the lines of falling on a pitchfork after walking into a shovel.
oiaohm, dude, you’re losing it. I was only talking about KHTML. No Javascript, no mainframes, none of the garbage you threw up there. You need to take a few Ridalin and stay focused. You didn’t provide the HHTML citation because there isn’t one. You haven’t proven anything to anyone but yourself. Use the source, puke!
The little woman used that other OS from 1985 till a couple of years ago. Divorce, any style, is more trouble than it’s worth. I used to fiddle with that other OS for her. Then my son became her guru. When he converted to GNU/Linux we had her surrounded and her one “mission-critical” app became a web-application. It works well enough with FLOSS that we replaced all her OS with GNU/Linux. She uses four PCs and they all run GNU/Linux, a mixture of Debian and Ubuntu GNU/Linux.
“This is where oldman and others stuff up. Same thing started happening with the term microcomputer due to PC’s as well.”
So now not content to appear the expert on everything, you now attempt to change history. It doen not matter what you think . It matters what history SAYS! The Amdhal 470/V6 WAS a mainframe – Period. All else is bushwah.