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	<title>Comments on: Tablet price battle apparent in US market</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mrpogson.com/2012/07/17/tablet-price-battle-apparent-in-us-market/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/07/17/tablet-price-battle-apparent-in-us-market/</link>
	<description>One man. Closing, all the windows.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 12:55:06 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: oldman</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/07/17/tablet-price-battle-apparent-in-us-market/#comment-92383</link>
		<dc:creator>oldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13258#comment-92383</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As expected, no answer from the Hamster...

And so it goes...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As expected, no answer from the Hamster&#8230;</p>
<p>And so it goes&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: oldman</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/07/17/tablet-price-battle-apparent-in-us-market/#comment-92347</link>
		<dc:creator>oldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 22:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13258#comment-92347</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Now your turn write your general overview of needs oldman.&quot;

The conditions that I work under to get paid are as follows. 

The Desktop environment is almost completly windows.  The Server environment is a mixture of Windows Server, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Sun/Oracle  Solaris and AIX. I  am required to function within this context.

As part of my job, I am called on to perform system and data analysis, capacity planning and system integration for major applications systems. Much of the reporting I do  involves ad hoc queries against data generated by our various systems. The reports are generally required to be available quickly sometimes within the hour - most of them are not can-nable.

My management understands that they have to give their staff tools to get their job done. So long as the benefits can be justified and teh costs are not too out of line. Any request for hardware and software will be funded.

Part of my job requires system prototyping. I need to be able to run multiple virtual machines images for windows server from 2003 through 2013, windows workstation from XP through 2013. I also need to be able to virtualize vSphere 4,5 and KVM for testing purposes.  At the same time I have to deal with the fact that I do not always have access to my test bed. THis means that the prototyping needs to  done locally on my desktop or my portable. My system needed to be sized accordingly, and my specifications were approved and funded.

I am also asked to maintain/Update  complex AutoCad documents. I have been allowed to specify a system that can display them.

These are just some of the requirements that I have that have been generated by management. 


&quot;Really I would suspect you only think you know your limits oldman. You have never really had to push them.&quot;

One does not have to work in your particular environment to push one&#039;s self.  Working to pull together a the hardware specifications of multi-million dollar data center layout in only a few weeks without clear specifications from those above is quite a stretch as well.

&quot;Can you see the particular reasons why I don’t have a problem making do with Linux due to the needs I have to match.&quot;

I see that you work for a bunch of cheap a$$holes who dont know how to treat their employees, but that is your self made hell, not mine.

&quot;Number 5 exists for the fact that parts supply here is not always dependable. So it comes down to who to hurt when you run out of parts.&quot;

Perhaps, but this also suggests to me that your management does not think that you need a personal computer or any computer to perform your job. If that is the case, how are your needs needs?

&quot;Oldman I personally don’t think you would cope too well if you came back to your desk and all that was there was your harddrive and a stack of parts.&quot;

But I would never work for an organization that would  treat me in such a manner.

why do you?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Now your turn write your general overview of needs oldman.&#8221;</p>
<p>The conditions that I work under to get paid are as follows. </p>
<p>The Desktop environment is almost completly windows.  The Server environment is a mixture of Windows Server, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Sun/Oracle  Solaris and AIX. I  am required to function within this context.</p>
<p>As part of my job, I am called on to perform system and data analysis, capacity planning and system integration for major applications systems. Much of the reporting I do  involves ad hoc queries against data generated by our various systems. The reports are generally required to be available quickly sometimes within the hour &#8211; most of them are not can-nable.</p>
<p>My management understands that they have to give their staff tools to get their job done. So long as the benefits can be justified and teh costs are not too out of line. Any request for hardware and software will be funded.</p>
<p>Part of my job requires system prototyping. I need to be able to run multiple virtual machines images for windows server from 2003 through 2013, windows workstation from XP through 2013. I also need to be able to virtualize vSphere 4,5 and KVM for testing purposes.  At the same time I have to deal with the fact that I do not always have access to my test bed. THis means that the prototyping needs to  done locally on my desktop or my portable. My system needed to be sized accordingly, and my specifications were approved and funded.</p>
<p>I am also asked to maintain/Update  complex AutoCad documents. I have been allowed to specify a system that can display them.</p>
<p>These are just some of the requirements that I have that have been generated by management. </p>
<p>&#8220;Really I would suspect you only think you know your limits oldman. You have never really had to push them.&#8221;</p>
<p>One does not have to work in your particular environment to push one&#8217;s self.  Working to pull together a the hardware specifications of multi-million dollar data center layout in only a few weeks without clear specifications from those above is quite a stretch as well.</p>
<p>&#8220;Can you see the particular reasons why I don’t have a problem making do with Linux due to the needs I have to match.&#8221;</p>
<p>I see that you work for a bunch of cheap a$$holes who dont know how to treat their employees, but that is your self made hell, not mine.</p>
<p>&#8220;Number 5 exists for the fact that parts supply here is not always dependable. So it comes down to who to hurt when you run out of parts.&#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps, but this also suggests to me that your management does not think that you need a personal computer or any computer to perform your job. If that is the case, how are your needs needs?</p>
<p>&#8220;Oldman I personally don’t think you would cope too well if you came back to your desk and all that was there was your harddrive and a stack of parts.&#8221;</p>
<p>But I would never work for an organization that would  treat me in such a manner.</p>
<p>why do you?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: oiaohm</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/07/17/tablet-price-battle-apparent-in-us-market/#comment-92258</link>
		<dc:creator>oiaohm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2012 02:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13258#comment-92258</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[oldman &quot;So what about YOUR needs Sir?&quot;

You have not stated yours.

Mine are really quite simple.

1) I need to produce virtual machine images for cloud deployments for many different cloud services as required by management.

2) I need to be able to rebuild firmware in a timely fashion thinking chips I am required to use gcc has to be used.  So to meet this requirement Windows is basically excluded its too slow. Again as required by management.

3) I need to be able to process email and most general documents this does include general Internet access when the machine is not isolated.  Again as required by management.

4) I need to be able to run 3d simulations as part of work.  This here is required by management unless I want to take a pay cut.  So this one could be a need/want on my part.  But hey I am greedy.

5) I need solution required to be portable between motherboards and even cpu types. Because my machines do get cannibalised for parts.  So when I get back to my office all I might have sitting there is a harddrive from my old computer and a stack of new parts at worst only a backup image somewhere.  Something went wrong so my machine got used to fix it.  So my machine is spare parts other than my hard drive image or its templates.  Same is true for the rest of the IT techs here.  1 IT tech without a machine is not as disruptive as 100+ workers unable todo there job.  Even the machines I take with me out on the field may not come back in one piece if at all. If their parts are required to make something work I have to use them.

Yes number 5 rule of management here.

6) solution needs be able to operate network isolated at times to meet management requirements.

7) The solution needs to be cost effective.  Again to make management happy.

Oldman my number 5 need is a real total prick.   Even android tablet I take with me is same as what is used in receiving at different locations.  So if there tablet in receiving is broken somewhere I don&#039;t have a tablet for the rest of the trip.  Nothing I have with me in computer hardware that is not spare parts.  When I am not at the office all the computer hardware in my office bar the hard drives is spare parts unless someone else is using it.

Most scary was having to leave sat phone behind as 3g modem.  Sat phone/3g in one leaving behind is scary since its you life line.  So far about the only thing that has travelled with me on every trip that is electronic is my watch.  Everything else has been used somewhere.  My phone I did see again unfortunately it did not survive the courier.  The phone was the only item that has been deployed I was to get back the rest stay forever more where they were deployed.

I told you working rural is one of the hardest things.  You cannot develop any attachment to computer hardware you have with you.  Aircraft weight limits are also a factor.  So yes I might be taking a tablet out I get to use until it gets to the drop off point same with a laptop or anything else.

oldman reality you are spoiled.

I don&#039;t have ages to bring my desktop machine back to life.  If my desktop machine has been consumed I have 2 hours after I get back to the office to have a working machine back in front of me max with standard parts supply.  Preferred 1 hour.  Of course my machines have all ecc ram with standard parts supply.  If for some reason there is no ECC ram I can have some extra time todo a memory check but that is all.

Oldman I personally don&#039;t think you would cope too well if you came back to your desk and all that was there was your harddrive and a stack of parts.  

Particular things I do in the cluster particular things being prototype the machine has to run network isolated.  Not my requirement managements requirement.

Yes sitting on a phone waiting for activation approval is not a option.  Connecting to the business network KMS may not be an option depending on what was being worked on.

oldman
&quot;I know my limits sir, I doubt that you do.&quot;

I know my limits doing my job I get pushed to them quite often.  Really I would suspect you only think you know your limits oldman.  You have never really had to push them.

I could write my need list in more details.  But those 7 are a general overview without giving away any trade secrets.  Notice not one of the 7 are my general idea.  Needs are the conditions I have to work to so I get paid.  Really in a lot of ways number 5 could be standard.

Number 5 exists for the fact that parts supply here is not always dependable.  So it comes down to who to hurt when you run out of parts.

Can you see the particular reasons why I don&#039;t have a problem making do with Linux due to the needs I have to match.

Now your turn write your general overview of needs oldman.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oldman &#8220;So what about YOUR needs Sir?&#8221;</p>
<p>You have not stated yours.</p>
<p>Mine are really quite simple.</p>
<p>1) I need to produce virtual machine images for cloud deployments for many different cloud services as required by management.</p>
<p>2) I need to be able to rebuild firmware in a timely fashion thinking chips I am required to use gcc has to be used.  So to meet this requirement Windows is basically excluded its too slow. Again as required by management.</p>
<p>3) I need to be able to process email and most general documents this does include general Internet access when the machine is not isolated.  Again as required by management.</p>
<p>4) I need to be able to run 3d simulations as part of work.  This here is required by management unless I want to take a pay cut.  So this one could be a need/want on my part.  But hey I am greedy.</p>
<p>5) I need solution required to be portable between motherboards and even cpu types. Because my machines do get cannibalised for parts.  So when I get back to my office all I might have sitting there is a harddrive from my old computer and a stack of new parts at worst only a backup image somewhere.  Something went wrong so my machine got used to fix it.  So my machine is spare parts other than my hard drive image or its templates.  Same is true for the rest of the IT techs here.  1 IT tech without a machine is not as disruptive as 100+ workers unable todo there job.  Even the machines I take with me out on the field may not come back in one piece if at all. If their parts are required to make something work I have to use them.</p>
<p>Yes number 5 rule of management here.</p>
<p>6) solution needs be able to operate network isolated at times to meet management requirements.</p>
<p>7) The solution needs to be cost effective.  Again to make management happy.</p>
<p>Oldman my number 5 need is a real total prick.   Even android tablet I take with me is same as what is used in receiving at different locations.  So if there tablet in receiving is broken somewhere I don&#8217;t have a tablet for the rest of the trip.  Nothing I have with me in computer hardware that is not spare parts.  When I am not at the office all the computer hardware in my office bar the hard drives is spare parts unless someone else is using it.</p>
<p>Most scary was having to leave sat phone behind as 3g modem.  Sat phone/3g in one leaving behind is scary since its you life line.  So far about the only thing that has travelled with me on every trip that is electronic is my watch.  Everything else has been used somewhere.  My phone I did see again unfortunately it did not survive the courier.  The phone was the only item that has been deployed I was to get back the rest stay forever more where they were deployed.</p>
<p>I told you working rural is one of the hardest things.  You cannot develop any attachment to computer hardware you have with you.  Aircraft weight limits are also a factor.  So yes I might be taking a tablet out I get to use until it gets to the drop off point same with a laptop or anything else.</p>
<p>oldman reality you are spoiled.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have ages to bring my desktop machine back to life.  If my desktop machine has been consumed I have 2 hours after I get back to the office to have a working machine back in front of me max with standard parts supply.  Preferred 1 hour.  Of course my machines have all ecc ram with standard parts supply.  If for some reason there is no ECC ram I can have some extra time todo a memory check but that is all.</p>
<p>Oldman I personally don&#8217;t think you would cope too well if you came back to your desk and all that was there was your harddrive and a stack of parts.  </p>
<p>Particular things I do in the cluster particular things being prototype the machine has to run network isolated.  Not my requirement managements requirement.</p>
<p>Yes sitting on a phone waiting for activation approval is not a option.  Connecting to the business network KMS may not be an option depending on what was being worked on.</p>
<p>oldman<br />
&#8220;I know my limits sir, I doubt that you do.&#8221;</p>
<p>I know my limits doing my job I get pushed to them quite often.  Really I would suspect you only think you know your limits oldman.  You have never really had to push them.</p>
<p>I could write my need list in more details.  But those 7 are a general overview without giving away any trade secrets.  Notice not one of the 7 are my general idea.  Needs are the conditions I have to work to so I get paid.  Really in a lot of ways number 5 could be standard.</p>
<p>Number 5 exists for the fact that parts supply here is not always dependable.  So it comes down to who to hurt when you run out of parts.</p>
<p>Can you see the particular reasons why I don&#8217;t have a problem making do with Linux due to the needs I have to match.</p>
<p>Now your turn write your general overview of needs oldman.</p>
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		<title>By: oldman</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/07/17/tablet-price-battle-apparent-in-us-market/#comment-92223</link>
		<dc:creator>oldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2012 17:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13258#comment-92223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Nothing you have said boosts the case that you are not incompetent oldman. All it proves is you cannot accept that fact.&quot;

And nothing you have said boosts the case that you are not just some low level tech working in rural Australia who has an overblown notion of his own worth and whose competence itself is not necessarily in evidence.

I know my limits sir, I doubt that you do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Nothing you have said boosts the case that you are not incompetent oldman. All it proves is you cannot accept that fact.&#8221;</p>
<p>And nothing you have said boosts the case that you are not just some low level tech working in rural Australia who has an overblown notion of his own worth and whose competence itself is not necessarily in evidence.</p>
<p>I know my limits sir, I doubt that you do.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: oldman</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/07/17/tablet-price-battle-apparent-in-us-market/#comment-92222</link>
		<dc:creator>oldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2012 17:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13258#comment-92222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The true answer is needs are not subjective. &quot;

Really?

But we am talking about YOUR needs, not business requirements and not an IBM study.  And To paraphrase Pog&#039;s sayings, The objectivity of your &quot;needs&quot; is not in evidence, especially given your bias.

so lets go back to my original comment:

&quot;I suspect that if we take a close look your needs are just as subjective at their core.&quot;

So what about YOUR needs Sir?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The true answer is needs are not subjective. &#8221;</p>
<p>Really?</p>
<p>But we am talking about YOUR needs, not business requirements and not an IBM study.  And To paraphrase Pog&#8217;s sayings, The objectivity of your &#8220;needs&#8221; is not in evidence, especially given your bias.</p>
<p>so lets go back to my original comment:</p>
<p>&#8220;I suspect that if we take a close look your needs are just as subjective at their core.&#8221;</p>
<p>So what about YOUR needs Sir?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Clarence Moon</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/07/17/tablet-price-battle-apparent-in-us-market/#comment-92212</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarence Moon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2012 15:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13258#comment-92212</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;I study history of markets...&lt;/b&gt;

Baloney, Mr. O, baloney.  You Google for factoids to support your childish constructions of theories that suit your pathological need to denigrate Microsoft.  I think that stems from a general lack of self-esteem on your your part.  Find a good doctor and take up growing vegetables in your back yard garden.  You will be better off in the long run.

&lt;b&gt;Price has nothing to do with iPad or iPhone success.&lt;/b&gt;

It is a business, I say, and that means that price realization is a very important factor in success.  Apple does a remarkably good job at maintaining that essential requirement.  Microsoft does as well, if we remember that they are selling software licenses, and not device hardware.

I think that the issue being discussed is not the &quot;success&quot; of the products but rather their &quot;popularity&quot; in terms of user counts. Here, too, the price is not the deterministic element in establishing a good result for Apple.  As you note, the purchase price for an iPhone is minor compared to the service fees paid to the carrier.

Mr. Pogson and his supporters wish to view the market as Android against Apple, similar to the way they view the PC OS world as Linux against Microsoft.  This is a wrong view in both cases, of course, but they do not see the distinctions.  In the phone market place, it is Apple against Samsung against LG against Motorola against Sony against HTC against Nokia, etc.  These manufacturers strive to present modes, namely iPhone 4, Razr, Galaxy, Lumina, etc, to potential purchasers and are not using the OS as any sort of selling point outside of having to choose an app base for their product.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>I study history of markets&#8230;</b></p>
<p>Baloney, Mr. O, baloney.  You Google for factoids to support your childish constructions of theories that suit your pathological need to denigrate Microsoft.  I think that stems from a general lack of self-esteem on your your part.  Find a good doctor and take up growing vegetables in your back yard garden.  You will be better off in the long run.</p>
<p><b>Price has nothing to do with iPad or iPhone success.</b></p>
<p>It is a business, I say, and that means that price realization is a very important factor in success.  Apple does a remarkably good job at maintaining that essential requirement.  Microsoft does as well, if we remember that they are selling software licenses, and not device hardware.</p>
<p>I think that the issue being discussed is not the &#8220;success&#8221; of the products but rather their &#8220;popularity&#8221; in terms of user counts. Here, too, the price is not the deterministic element in establishing a good result for Apple.  As you note, the purchase price for an iPhone is minor compared to the service fees paid to the carrier.</p>
<p>Mr. Pogson and his supporters wish to view the market as Android against Apple, similar to the way they view the PC OS world as Linux against Microsoft.  This is a wrong view in both cases, of course, but they do not see the distinctions.  In the phone market place, it is Apple against Samsung against LG against Motorola against Sony against HTC against Nokia, etc.  These manufacturers strive to present modes, namely iPhone 4, Razr, Galaxy, Lumina, etc, to potential purchasers and are not using the OS as any sort of selling point outside of having to choose an app base for their product.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Robert Pogson</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/07/17/tablet-price-battle-apparent-in-us-market/#comment-92192</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Pogson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13258#comment-92192</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Spam is horrendous these days. Many legitimate comments are going into the spam queue. From there they move to the &quot;pending&quot; queue. I am not happy with WordPress for having to bless comments twice. I have a life...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spam is horrendous these days. Many legitimate comments are going into the spam queue. From there they move to the &#8220;pending&#8221; queue. I am not happy with WordPress for having to bless comments twice. I have a life&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tar</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/07/17/tablet-price-battle-apparent-in-us-market/#comment-92186</link>
		<dc:creator>Tar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2012 11:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13258#comment-92186</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Never mind, my comment has appeared again :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never mind, my comment has appeared again <img src='http://mrpogson.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tar</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/07/17/tablet-price-battle-apparent-in-us-market/#comment-92184</link>
		<dc:creator>Tar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2012 11:27:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13258#comment-92184</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What just happened to my long comment?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What just happened to my long comment?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tar</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/07/17/tablet-price-battle-apparent-in-us-market/#comment-92183</link>
		<dc:creator>Tar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2012 11:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13258#comment-92183</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Price has nothing to do with iPad or iPhone success.

3GS here in India is only US 230 on a contract with unlimited data, not so much actually for many people. same elsewhere, not everyone needs latest device to have latest iOS.

compare with Android, an os that is rarely updated outside of the factory.

windows is just not a player in the tablet space, sorry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Price has nothing to do with iPad or iPhone success.</p>
<p>3GS here in India is only US 230 on a contract with unlimited data, not so much actually for many people. same elsewhere, not everyone needs latest device to have latest iOS.</p>
<p>compare with Android, an os that is rarely updated outside of the factory.</p>
<p>windows is just not a player in the tablet space, sorry.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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