It’s obvious that tablets not running that other OS are selling like hot cakes while PCs running that other OS are declinging in sales. The argument that people have both a PC running that other OS and a tablet running Android or iOS is looking weak today. People love small cheap computers and they love operating systems that let them enjoy low prices. The more people have a personal computer that runs well without the help of M$ the closer we are to seeing GNU/Linux on retail shelves even in the USA. Wintel will suffer from a “Christmas sale” event lasting year-long. People may well decide to have a tablet in each room so they can be mobile without carrying anything as well as they can have a PC in one room and a tablet in the other.
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I might suggest that your glee is ill-placed, Mr. Pogson. What your cite describes is a race to the bottom for the fledgling suppliers of alternatives to the Apple iPad. With all the Android vendors scurrying about and beating one another up on price, the result is that the possible contenders to the Apple products are weakened and less able to mount much of a charge against the iPad.
There is little or no money in the Android market and that will not result in anything that might make you smile, I think. “No bucks, no Buck Rogers!” was the NASA mantra that might pertain to this condition. For one thing, manufacturer support for the sort of fiddling and diddling that Linux fans are fond of doing with their PCs is not possible with these devices which will become more and more lacking in interface functions since it becomes necessary to shave pennies from the manufacturing costs in order to continue to compete.
Microsoft continues to enjoy massive profits from PC OS sales, though, and so can invest in things like Surface in an effort to leapfrog Apple at the highly profitable luxury end of the tablet market.
Clarence Moon wrote, “With all the Android vendors scurrying about and beating one another up on price, the result is that the possible contenders to the Apple products are weakened and less able to mount much of a charge against the iPad.”
While there are stats that show the iPad doing well, Apple’s SEC filing show it doing less well by millions of iPads per annum and the competitors are making money. Amazon.com, Walmart.com and others show best sellers are not iPad. That’s not to say iPad is not highly profitable but that Android/Linux is getting a good share of the tablet market and OEMs are happy as are retailers and developers.
Clarence Moon the salesman, can you tell us how the retail people might beat each other up in ways other than price?
Pogson, marketshare means nothing alone. It is profit that counts at the end.
let’s say, just for chuckles, that I really want a tablet that runs windows!
please tell me, where do I go to get one?
I’ve never actually seen one…
Clarence Moon
“For one thing, manufacturer support for the sort of fiddling and diddling that Linux fans are fond of doing with their PCs is not possible with these devices which will become more and more lacking in interface functions since it becomes necessary to shave pennies from the manufacturing costs in order to continue to compete. ”
Not true. Nexus 7 inch is made for less than its sale price. The cheaper the table the normally the more you can mess with it from a tweaking point of view. Why the more the mainboard will match chip manufactures reference boards. Allwinner stuff you cannot put a locked boot-loader into them that cannot be broken. Cheap equals no Digital Rights Management stuff to prevent you from altering it. Reason it costs to implement Digital Rights Management. Yes cheaper the device less reason not to be FOSS compatible.
Big thing how many humans are required to make an Android tablet. You have the designers. factory maintenance workers and shipping workers.
Notice no factory floor workers pick and place machines are the factory workers. If you look a most cheap android tablets there cases are designed for pick and place not for human clipping or clipping. Even there packaging and QA are designed for pick and place.
Clarence Moon
“Microsoft continues to enjoy massive profits from PC OS sales, though, and so can invest in things like Surface in an effort to leapfrog Apple at the highly profitable luxury end of the tablet market.”
Don’t you see the disconnect here.
The average percentage in all markets of not Luxury when the market stables is about 90 percent.
Microsoft is dominate in the PC market because it was not the Luxury option. So PC market is falling why because its becoming the Luxury option.
Microsoft has time to reshape its income but I don’t see how MS will in future be as profitable as it is today.
MS Office 2013 really does not bring many new features.
can you tell us how the retail people might beat each other up in ways other than price…
That is a reasonable question, Mr. Kozbear, and shows that you are either finally coming to the realization that there are gaps in your education or else think once more that you have some sort of zinger out of your basic ignorance of how life works. Either way, the answer is the same, namely “product differentiation”. The successful vendor of tablets, for example Apple, will position their product as uniquely suited to best fulfill their customer’s needs. “My product is the best for you regardless of price and pays for itself in terms of beneficial use and user satisfaction!” is what they tell their customers.
Whether that is true or not is not important if the customer believes that it is true and Apple fans are, if nothing else, true believers in the Apple message of quality and unique performance. Apple is the market leader and Apple sets the market direction and Apple determines market trends. Pure and simple.
Android devices are what the losers buy, the Apple fans believe, either out of ignorance or out of financial deficiency. Watch the evening news and see if you can find any laptop on any announcer’s desk that does not have the Apple logo glowing on the back of their Macbook Air. I suspect Apple gives them away if they have to.
The Android story is all about having something cheaper than the other guy. That only appeals to those who have little pride and less money. Who needs such folk for customers?
Clarence Moon
“The Android story is all about having something cheaper than the other guy. That only appeals to those who have little pride and less money. Who needs such folk for customers?”
That is 90 percent of the market base. Most people don’t take huge pride in themselves.
Really serous-ally when was the last time you walked down a street and paid attention. Just do it and do spot the person wearing designer goods. Everyone has to wear clothes right but not many really care. Near enough is good enough for about 90 percent of the population.
Trend setters are of minor importance.
Clarence Moon
“Watch the evening news and see if you can find any laptop on any announcer’s desk that does not have the Apple logo glowing on the back of their Macbook Air. I suspect Apple gives them away if they have to.”
Watch Australian news some time. Sony HP… You basically don’t see Apple.
There is a reason. Apple will give programs free devices to use. By Australian law news agencies/companies are not allows to take bribes this include free gifts of hardware. USA media laws are very weak.
This again is you being a USA twit. USA you see huge number of Apple products because they get those for free.
Its not suspect they give them away for free. Apple does give them away for free. Like if I want a phone for a TV program ring apple you will get it for free. Of course it has to be returned at end of series/shooting. But until then you can use it how ever you see fit. It even comes with full breakage replacement. Even if you dropped the prior one in a blender on purpose. Yes the guy doing a will it blend segment was kinda shocked by this.
Note Apple fans are no different to people who wear high fashion. They are not the common man they are not the majority of the market. 10 percent of market is about the max that care about brand.
Clarence Moon also in Australia this complete tablet war could take a really bad turn for the worst.
Telstra our biggest phone provider. Is looking at providing a wifi android hand held and 7 inch or larger dock-able to every one of there customers.
For the simple reason they can produce the devices with their branding all over it and the cost is not much worse than making a normal handset.
The market in Australia is going past I just looked at that in the store. To something like Android being de-facto standard.
Clarence Moon question here is will this be an Australian only thing where telephone carriers look to get directly in the Android game.
You cannot get more 100 percent coverage than every land line converted.
Android is threatening to be that bad. Don’t worry about the end consumer having to buy it. They will just have it and your product has to be better.
By the time the stone that android started rolling stops how we get our computers could have completely changed. Need a computer contact the telephone company that might be the future. The end of PC market completely.
Clarence Moon you are working from the point of view of carriers not getting in the game themselves.
This is what I was getting on about with retail. Once you get to wholesale supply like a telephone carrier the only thing that matters is the price per unit lower the better.
This is a train wreck that makes the MS Dos disruption of apple like minor. Android is a ball rolling down a hill picking up speed. Problem is halfway down the hill is the retail we know and love. Currently we don’t know if that retail will be fully flattened or just minor-ally hurt.
@ Clarence Moon
your comment
“The Android story is all about having something cheaper than the other guy. That only appeals to those who have little pride and less money. Who needs such folk for customers?”
Remember the USA has a population of about 311 million.
The worlds population is approximately 7 billion.
Being a marketing guy I suppose the concept of volume has slipped your mind and also no need to be so condescending to the people who have less money in this world. ie the poor
I resent your insinuation that they have less pride.
Get a life.
JR hey large percentage of the USA population is broke. They got caught up in the Mortgage crap.
This is why I told him to go walk down a street with his eyes open. Basically stop being a snob. The percentage who cannot afford I* stuff is quite high in the USA.
Clarence Moon is basically living in make believe. Mind you Clarence Moon could possible be an apple user Snob. History of this goes back to MS-Dos vs Apple when they were insulting to MS-Dos users. Just remember Clarence Moon
“Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.”
Meek does include the poor. The over price items being defeating in the market by items people can afford and use day in day out todo there job pre-dates the birth of Christ.
2000+ Years of trading knowledge is unknown to Clarence Moon. There is a equal saying in Chinese scripts from 4000BC.
History of trade is very old the rules are very well developed. I lot of stupid marketers think they can alter them.
The Emperor’s New Clothes for something from the 1620.
Basically the theme is repeated over and over again. You might fool the rich. The poor might be acting like they like it. But its only a stack that is waiting to come down. Clarence Moon
You lack the understanding that us who study history have. Rule of history. You are doomed to repeat it if you don’t understand it. This saying is true because Humans make the same errors in judgement over and over again.
Being a marketing guy I suppose the concept of volume has slipped your mind
Well, JR, I don’t know what YOU are about in terms of career or perhaps area of study, but it apparently doesn’t embrace the notion of non sequitur!
One thing that marketing demands is that there be benefits accruing to both the buyer and the seller. In most cases, the benefits to the seller are stated as a return on investment in terms of profits received from operations. A situation, such as the production of boatloads of Android tables sold for ever decreasing prices fails to yield satisfactory profits, I think, and so is a bad decision for a manufacturer.
“We lose money on each item, but we make it up in volume!” used to be a joke and still is among rational people, but that may not include yourself.
and also no need to be so condescending to the people who have less money in this world. ie the poor
I resent your insinuation that they have less pride.
I hardly care what you resent, JR, since you appear to have nothing to contribute to the discussion beyond an attitude. Your conclusion that my suggesting that a successful company, like Apple, focuses on selling their products to those who can afford luxuries and want to show it is “condescending” is misplaced, of course. It is just a fact of how commerce is conducted in such markets.
The Emperor’s New Clothes …over and over again
Rather trite, Mr. O, and much more like classical Sour Grapes.
Can you describe an analogous situation to the Apple iPad’s current success that suggests that history is about to repeat? It strikes me that the example of Microsoft is that they jumped to the front with DOS and then Windows and have been hanging on to their dominance going on almost 30 years now. If that is the history lesson for Apple, then they have another 28 or so years to go before they are in the same squeeze as Microsoft, which is actually no squeeze at all.
Clarence the salesman wrote:
“It strikes me that the example of Microsoft is that they jumped to the front with DOS and then Windows and have been hanging on to their dominance going on almost 30 years now.”
It’s not 1995 anymore Clarence. That’s the big difference. Microsoft (notice, not M$) is sliding into irrelevancy. They are not even close to what they were in 1995. No dominance in servers, mobile or high performance installations. Oh, that’s right, the desktop. But that’s disappearing and becoming irrelevant at the same time that Microsoft is losing percentage points in that market.
Attacking the competition on behalf of Microsoft is a fool’s game. People have choices now and they are increasingly choosing something other than Microsoft. Your world of Microsoft is getting smaller by the day Clarence. At some point you will have to decide to remain a fool or join the rest of the world.
hey are not even close to what they were in 1995. No dominance in servers…
A student of IT history you are not, Mr. Kozbear! Just ask yourself, “Who was the King of Servers in 1995?” Certainly not Microsoft. NT4 was still on the way and Win95 (remember the enthusiasm for a new Windows?) was just out. Microsoft had next to nothing on the server side business, but today they have slightly more than half! Not a story of decline, eh?
One might say the same for console game play. the desktop, of course, is still a ready source of cash for Redmond and, try as you might to find the $50 tablet a worthy opponent to that, it is still the biggest game in town.
At some point you will have to decide to remain a fool or join the rest of the world…
So you say, Mr. Kozbear, so you say. But it boils down to having a choice at no cost and, if the day ever comes that there is something better than Windows available for general personal computing, I may very well change, having missed nothing in the process. OTOH, you will have suffered for years with trying to fit in with everyone else and never quite making the grade.
Clarence Moon
“Can you describe an analogous situation to the Apple iPad’s current success that suggests that history is about to repeat?”
The early dominate home PC was Apple. To be correct the Apple IIe. They had a lot of other small competition around them at the time. That was before the MS Dos product really took off. Apple did not last then and will not last now. The Apple IIe and other products at the time by apple were seen as trend setters as well. Look at the iphone it was released prior to android entering the market against a stack of small and fragmented competitors. This is exactly how the PC market looked when Apple first entered it. All the machines in the early PC market were running like there own versions of basic. Microsoft was selling Basic licenses to them all. Then Microsoft introduces MS Dos and Apple maker share dies away.
Android has the criteria in modern day OS’s that MS Dos had. Multi vendor and good enough in most cases and most importantly a big company funder who does not give a major F about it for making a profit. Google is being the IBM of the MS Dos age. Majority of Dos based PC sold were not IBM’s an IBM had a special branding. Hello Google Nexus and related products. IBM did pay for the development of Dos also used there own programmers to assist Microsoft.
Just like the lead up to the Dos age. When apple entered the market most of the competing OS’s stayed alive in both the PC and Mobile phone market. But when MS Dos and Android have entered the market lot of the competing OS’s have died. Watching death lists of OS when they happened is what drew my attention to the fact MS Dos and Android have the same action in the market.
Remember IBM tried to stay in the game with OS/2 that was more expensive. Multi-vendor market when for the less able Windows 3.11 due to being able to produce the devices cheaper. Due to having to pay less OS cost. So in the new repeat MS location is very odd. MS is in the location of Apple and IBM at the end of the game. This is why MS is failing to get into the Mobile phone market. Then remember at the end of MS moves from the client market to the server market and gets a decent market share there. Android is threatening todo the same thing. So after Android has the phone and tablet market under control you can expect a percentage of the desktop pc market to fall to it if there is any left.
Clarence Moon
“It strikes me that the example of Microsoft is that they jumped to the front with DOS and then Windows and have been hanging on to their dominance going on almost 30 years now.”
Yes that is the example. The very example you have forgot at the start of this Apple had a decent market share. Then in face planted. Everything they are doing now is a repeat of why they face planted before.
Android threatens to dig in as hard if not harder than Microsoft ever has been. The multi-vendor vs each other is what powered MS Dos into dominance.
Clarence Moon
“Certainly not Microsoft. NT4 was still on the way and Win95 (remember the enthusiasm for a new Windows?) was just out. Microsoft had next to nothing on the server side business, but today they have slightly more than half! Not a story of decline, eh?”
Skipped a key bit of history. Microsoft in 1995 was partnered with Novell in Novell Netware. Novell doing the server side Microsoft doing the Client.
So MS 50 percent market share is the old Novell Netware market share MS back stabbed their partner to get.
Linux and Unix are back to about 50 percent of server hardware sales without OS license costs. That is truly higher than 1998. The lowest point in Unix/Linux server hardware sales by percentage of market. Unix has mostly been consumed by Linux. Microsoft mostly consumed the netware/small business market.
We are mostly to the point that in the server room that Linux and Windows have almost no where else to expand to keep growing market share without attempting to consume each others market.
Windows server market share is held up by there client dominance on the desktop. Say hello house of cards. Android threats to damage the very thing MS server market depends on.
Clarence the salesman, you didn’t fail me. I knew you’d come up with something good. So it boils down to when something comes along that’s better than Windows you’ll choose that? Good, that’s your opinion. Other people have their opinions too. Unfortunately for Microsoft (notice? no M$) they are making choices that don’t include the Redmond Behemoth in increasing numbers. That’s basically what we’re talking about most of the time here. People have choices now and they are not choosing Microsoft.
But you don’t seem to notice, maybe because you still do choose Microsoft and you haven’t bothered to look around. No, you know what’s going on as much as anyone else around here does.
Microsoft is losing their monopoly and are being forced to compete like everyone else and that’s hurting them. You come here to attack anyone defending FLOSS and promote uncertainty about it. You don’t have to win any arguments, just get the words out.
Clarence the salesman wrote:
“OTOH, you will have suffered for years with trying to fit in with everyone else and never quite making the grade.”
If you are referring to my use of FLOSS then yes, I will continue to “suffer” as I have for the last 7 years and bless each day that I have. It’s not an opinion that I often experience joy when using FLOSS. It’s an experience. It’s also not an opinion that I get a migraine when I use Windows for too long. It’s an experience. I use GNU/Linux because it makes the best sense to. It’s not rocket science.
“It’s not an opinion that I often experience joy when using FLOSS. It’s an experience.”
You need to turn off the computer and get out more.
oldman wrote about enjoying FLOSS, “You need to turn off the computer and get out more.”
I was out a fair bit today. I enjoyed what GNU/Linux does for me, family time, sharing fresh beets from the garden with an elderly aunt, pruning a tree damaged by a scaffold at the old homestead, finding a new home for a very vigorous rose (considered “too vigorous” by the present owner…), ridding the world of a few more weeds, observing new growth resulting from recent badly needed rains and recycling some old counter-tops to be shelves in a greenhouse I plan to build soon. I look forward to resuming my retirement soon.
@ Clarence Moon
Functional illiteracy and comprehension think about these concepts.
Unless you are an Apple spokesperson how on earth do you get the notion that I am talking about Apple when my referral to condescension is aimed at this comment you made ”
““The Android story is all about having something cheaper than the other guy. That only appeals to those who have little pride and less money. Who needs such folk for customers?””
Next time say you are commenting on behalf of Apple and then maybe I will understand your comment.
“I enjoyed what GNU/Linux does for me…”
I personally would think that enjoying your
Family in your retirement would be more important.
But that’s just me.
Microsoft in 1995 was partnered with Novell…50 percent market share is the old Novell Netware market share
For one who spends so much time googling about for factoids, Mr. O, I would think that you would have stumbled across the fact that Novell and Microsoft were never “partners” in any sense of the word. Ray Noorda was, in his day, as appreciative of Bill Gates and Microsoft as Larry Ellison is today.
Noorda is even suspected of being the impetus behind the SEC and DOJ prosecutions of Microsoft in the 1990s due to his vendetta-like attitude towards Microsoft and his Utah Mormon church association with then Senate Judiciary Committee chairman Orrin Hatch.
Novell never had anywhere near 50% of the server market and their products were essentially file sharing programs that were obviated with built-in services starting with Windows for Workgroups.
Be a little more careful with your facts the next time, Mr. O. You have been stumbling badly of late.
@ldman wrote:
“You need to turn off the computer and get out more.”
Once again, you’ve almost got it right @ldman. I do spend too much time on the “brain sucker” as we call it around my house. It’s too easy, too much fun and too rewarding. When I read of the latest malware scourge to rip through Microsoft’s futile defense anatomy I breathe freely. I’m glad my computer security isn’t a madhouse like it is with Microsoft. Did I say I take no security measures? No, I didn’t.
But there are many little things like updating my system. You know how it works with GNU/Linux. It’s so simple and easy. That’s how it should be but Microsoft makes it complicated.
I don’t think I would enjoy my GNU/Linux system as much if I hadn’t spent so many years with Microsoft’s Windows. Even though there are similarities, the differences are remarkable. Like their approach to security. With Linux it’s built in, Windows security is layered on as an after thought.
And so it goes. I use GNU/Linux and it doesn’t drag me down. I use Windows, I get a migraine. YMMV
“Microsoft in 1995 was partnered with Novell…50 percent market share is the old Novell Netware market share”
Clarence Moon need to brush up on your english. partnered does not require being ‘partners’. Partnered on the dance floor does not mean you will be married and become a formal partner. Yet you were still a partner on the dance floor.
In the 1995 MS windows ships with Novell network protocols written by of all people Novell. So they are partnered in the sense MS is shipping Novell netware interface requirements with there software.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc751087.aspx I included the exact year Clarence Moon.
Googling for something like this you would not find unless you knew exactly what you were looking for.
There is a old 1995 quote about it “Perfect Partners At Least for Now” talking about the Novell Microsoft setup at the time. Even in 1995 you could see Microsoft lining up to stick the knife into Novell.
“Novell never had anywhere near 50% of the server market and their products were essentially file sharing programs that were obviated with built-in services starting with Windows for Workgroups.”
50 percent of the current market share source was what I was referring to. Traces to the old Novell market share. Yes 1995 it was smaller. You are reading and applying incorrect context to my words.
Lot of other vendors from the time of 1995 are basically non existent. Netscape VMS….. Unix was not alone in the market back then.
Sorry I should have been more exact on context of that. That I was referring to where the 50 percent curent comes from. Not that Novell ever had 50 percent.
What looks 50 percent in to-days market might have been 5 to 10 percent of a particular market 20 years ago. The reverse can be true as well.
Remember I study history of markets this include where particular markets start. The small business server solution starts with Novell with Microsoft as the dominate playing in that today.
“And so it goes. I use GNU/Linux and it doesn’t drag me down. I use Windows, I get a migraine. YMMV”
And My experience has been opposite.
Go figure.
oldman
“And My experience has been opposite.
Go figure.”
Really nothing to figure oldman. You have heavy Apple users who find Linux and Windows a drag as well.
There are a percentage who’s operation requires a particular OS. For me due to the things I do I need Linux. Putting me on Windows or OS X will badly effect what I do.
By IBM numbers only 20 percent of Windows users in a business normally need it. This 20 percent also matches to a lot of other case studies. Out of that 20 percent about 15 percent can be serviced by remote desktop. Leaving only 5 percent who are using Windows enough to have it desktop.
Yet most business setups are designed around peoples wants not there true needs.
Also a person who only need a android table to do there job and there phone is android you could be only dragging them down by having them learn to use Windows. So Linux/GNU is not the only factor here any more.
” Yet most business setups are designed around peoples wants not there true needs.”
So what? I suspect that if we take a close look your needs are just as subjective at their core.
What say you?
oldman
“So what? I suspect that if we take a close look your needs are just as subjective at their core.
What say you?”
You make a statement like this and you cannot work out why I call you incompetent. Competent person understands needs and wants.
So sorry if you looked at my needs they are not subjective. Needs list the tasks that need performing they don’t list software.
Lot of businesses its wants. I want MS Office Pro some people say when you look closer there needs only justify MS Office Standard.
Even with MS products needs assessments is important.
Anyone who knows resource management knows Needs and Wants.
Needs are the tasks that need doing. Wants you have to watch. You might have a choice between doing a system automated using LibreOffice or MS Office both able todo the same task. Both LibreOffice and MS Office you could say are developer selection wants.
When times get tight the one done on LibreOffice will service the need but have less budget cost to keep active. Even so the solution done here in Libreoffice could be completely wrong and something like jasper-reports used. Again needs vs wants assessment with the wants assessed against long term costs.
Need describes what the user need todo. This is why its not subjective. Some cases a jobs need description has not changed in 50 years. Of course software instead of paper is used today because its faster way to provide those needs.
Wants are subjective. Needs are not. What is the big clue that a Need is not a Need is when it like I need MS Office. This is you want MS Office. Need is the list to tasks that you want MS Office to perform.
Selecting of software should always start with a list of needs. This way you can compare the suitability of the software. Lot of business you find they have worked from wants without doing a list of needs so normally over deploy software.
Problem with over deploy software is excess cost that comes a problem when times get tight. Also means you make less profit so have less money to put aside for a downturn.
oldman your statement suggest to me you don’t know how to do assessments at all. That possibly your teacher was incompetent for not covering the difference between needs and wants lists.
“oldman your statement suggest to me you don’t know how to do assessments at all.”
Yeah whatever….
And your answer suggests that you are evading the question by once again by smearing my abilities.
Its not going to work this time Hamster.
In fact none of what you said is does anythin to bolster your case.
SO cut the crap and lets hear a real answer.
oldman real answer is there the IBM studies of usage tracking need. Does a person working at a cash register really need a copy of Windows.
Does a person working receiving goods need a copy of Windows.
The need is data entry of particular types of data in both cases. Both can normally be better served without using windows at a lower cost. This is where the 80 percent reduction deploying Linux of Windows comes in.
List of needs vs solutions provides is the most important thing.
You want a real answer oldman you are incompetent so you have to claim stupidity against me until you are willing to accept this bugger off.
Claiming I evaded the question is simple because you don’t understand what I said in the first place. This is because you are incompetent.
I said businesses end up based on wants instead of needs. This based on wants is why 80 percent reductions are possible in case of Linux deployments. You find a lot of copies of MS Office deployed on systems that are basically never used when you do a Linux migration in lots of businesses.
Wants vs Needs deployments. Need based deployment is way more cost effective.
“I suspect that if we take a close look your needs are just as subjective at their core. ”
The true answer is needs are not subjective.
Because if a person thinks a need is subjective they don’t understand english for one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need So you are calling me incompetent oldman.
You attempted to smear me first. By claiming the invalid. Yes if my written needs are subjective I am incompetent. You have called by incompetent by being incompetent oldman.
Nothing you have said boosts the case that you are not incompetent oldman. All it proves is you cannot accept that fact.
So how dare you be upset by me smearing you. You smeared me first oldman.
Needs are never subjective. Anyone claiming a Need is subjective is a idiot/moron because they don’t understand the difference between a need and a want.
In fact oldman many times you claimed you need MS Office. This was in fact a want MS Office. Its because oldman is an idiot/moron who does not understand basic english.
Price has nothing to do with iPad or iPhone success.
3GS here in India is only US 230 on a contract with unlimited data, not so much actually for many people. same elsewhere, not everyone needs latest device to have latest iOS.
compare with Android, an os that is rarely updated outside of the factory.
windows is just not a player in the tablet space, sorry.
What just happened to my long comment?
Never mind, my comment has appeared again
Spam is horrendous these days. Many legitimate comments are going into the spam queue. From there they move to the “pending” queue. I am not happy with WordPress for having to bless comments twice. I have a life…
I study history of markets…
Baloney, Mr. O, baloney. You Google for factoids to support your childish constructions of theories that suit your pathological need to denigrate Microsoft. I think that stems from a general lack of self-esteem on your your part. Find a good doctor and take up growing vegetables in your back yard garden. You will be better off in the long run.
Price has nothing to do with iPad or iPhone success.
It is a business, I say, and that means that price realization is a very important factor in success. Apple does a remarkably good job at maintaining that essential requirement. Microsoft does as well, if we remember that they are selling software licenses, and not device hardware.
I think that the issue being discussed is not the “success” of the products but rather their “popularity” in terms of user counts. Here, too, the price is not the deterministic element in establishing a good result for Apple. As you note, the purchase price for an iPhone is minor compared to the service fees paid to the carrier.
Mr. Pogson and his supporters wish to view the market as Android against Apple, similar to the way they view the PC OS world as Linux against Microsoft. This is a wrong view in both cases, of course, but they do not see the distinctions. In the phone market place, it is Apple against Samsung against LG against Motorola against Sony against HTC against Nokia, etc. These manufacturers strive to present modes, namely iPhone 4, Razr, Galaxy, Lumina, etc, to potential purchasers and are not using the OS as any sort of selling point outside of having to choose an app base for their product.
“The true answer is needs are not subjective. ”
Really?
But we am talking about YOUR needs, not business requirements and not an IBM study. And To paraphrase Pog’s sayings, The objectivity of your “needs” is not in evidence, especially given your bias.
so lets go back to my original comment:
“I suspect that if we take a close look your needs are just as subjective at their core.”
So what about YOUR needs Sir?
“Nothing you have said boosts the case that you are not incompetent oldman. All it proves is you cannot accept that fact.”
And nothing you have said boosts the case that you are not just some low level tech working in rural Australia who has an overblown notion of his own worth and whose competence itself is not necessarily in evidence.
I know my limits sir, I doubt that you do.
oldman “So what about YOUR needs Sir?”
You have not stated yours.
Mine are really quite simple.
1) I need to produce virtual machine images for cloud deployments for many different cloud services as required by management.
2) I need to be able to rebuild firmware in a timely fashion thinking chips I am required to use gcc has to be used. So to meet this requirement Windows is basically excluded its too slow. Again as required by management.
3) I need to be able to process email and most general documents this does include general Internet access when the machine is not isolated. Again as required by management.
4) I need to be able to run 3d simulations as part of work. This here is required by management unless I want to take a pay cut. So this one could be a need/want on my part. But hey I am greedy.
5) I need solution required to be portable between motherboards and even cpu types. Because my machines do get cannibalised for parts. So when I get back to my office all I might have sitting there is a harddrive from my old computer and a stack of new parts at worst only a backup image somewhere. Something went wrong so my machine got used to fix it. So my machine is spare parts other than my hard drive image or its templates. Same is true for the rest of the IT techs here. 1 IT tech without a machine is not as disruptive as 100+ workers unable todo there job. Even the machines I take with me out on the field may not come back in one piece if at all. If their parts are required to make something work I have to use them.
Yes number 5 rule of management here.
6) solution needs be able to operate network isolated at times to meet management requirements.
7) The solution needs to be cost effective. Again to make management happy.
Oldman my number 5 need is a real total prick. Even android tablet I take with me is same as what is used in receiving at different locations. So if there tablet in receiving is broken somewhere I don’t have a tablet for the rest of the trip. Nothing I have with me in computer hardware that is not spare parts. When I am not at the office all the computer hardware in my office bar the hard drives is spare parts unless someone else is using it.
Most scary was having to leave sat phone behind as 3g modem. Sat phone/3g in one leaving behind is scary since its you life line. So far about the only thing that has travelled with me on every trip that is electronic is my watch. Everything else has been used somewhere. My phone I did see again unfortunately it did not survive the courier. The phone was the only item that has been deployed I was to get back the rest stay forever more where they were deployed.
I told you working rural is one of the hardest things. You cannot develop any attachment to computer hardware you have with you. Aircraft weight limits are also a factor. So yes I might be taking a tablet out I get to use until it gets to the drop off point same with a laptop or anything else.
oldman reality you are spoiled.
I don’t have ages to bring my desktop machine back to life. If my desktop machine has been consumed I have 2 hours after I get back to the office to have a working machine back in front of me max with standard parts supply. Preferred 1 hour. Of course my machines have all ecc ram with standard parts supply. If for some reason there is no ECC ram I can have some extra time todo a memory check but that is all.
Oldman I personally don’t think you would cope too well if you came back to your desk and all that was there was your harddrive and a stack of parts.
Particular things I do in the cluster particular things being prototype the machine has to run network isolated. Not my requirement managements requirement.
Yes sitting on a phone waiting for activation approval is not a option. Connecting to the business network KMS may not be an option depending on what was being worked on.
oldman
“I know my limits sir, I doubt that you do.”
I know my limits doing my job I get pushed to them quite often. Really I would suspect you only think you know your limits oldman. You have never really had to push them.
I could write my need list in more details. But those 7 are a general overview without giving away any trade secrets. Notice not one of the 7 are my general idea. Needs are the conditions I have to work to so I get paid. Really in a lot of ways number 5 could be standard.
Number 5 exists for the fact that parts supply here is not always dependable. So it comes down to who to hurt when you run out of parts.
Can you see the particular reasons why I don’t have a problem making do with Linux due to the needs I have to match.
Now your turn write your general overview of needs oldman.
“Now your turn write your general overview of needs oldman.”
The conditions that I work under to get paid are as follows.
The Desktop environment is almost completly windows. The Server environment is a mixture of Windows Server, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Sun/Oracle Solaris and AIX. I am required to function within this context.
As part of my job, I am called on to perform system and data analysis, capacity planning and system integration for major applications systems. Much of the reporting I do involves ad hoc queries against data generated by our various systems. The reports are generally required to be available quickly sometimes within the hour – most of them are not can-nable.
My management understands that they have to give their staff tools to get their job done. So long as the benefits can be justified and teh costs are not too out of line. Any request for hardware and software will be funded.
Part of my job requires system prototyping. I need to be able to run multiple virtual machines images for windows server from 2003 through 2013, windows workstation from XP through 2013. I also need to be able to virtualize vSphere 4,5 and KVM for testing purposes. At the same time I have to deal with the fact that I do not always have access to my test bed. THis means that the prototyping needs to done locally on my desktop or my portable. My system needed to be sized accordingly, and my specifications were approved and funded.
I am also asked to maintain/Update complex AutoCad documents. I have been allowed to specify a system that can display them.
These are just some of the requirements that I have that have been generated by management.
“Really I would suspect you only think you know your limits oldman. You have never really had to push them.”
One does not have to work in your particular environment to push one’s self. Working to pull together a the hardware specifications of multi-million dollar data center layout in only a few weeks without clear specifications from those above is quite a stretch as well.
“Can you see the particular reasons why I don’t have a problem making do with Linux due to the needs I have to match.”
I see that you work for a bunch of cheap a$$holes who dont know how to treat their employees, but that is your self made hell, not mine.
“Number 5 exists for the fact that parts supply here is not always dependable. So it comes down to who to hurt when you run out of parts.”
Perhaps, but this also suggests to me that your management does not think that you need a personal computer or any computer to perform your job. If that is the case, how are your needs needs?
“Oldman I personally don’t think you would cope too well if you came back to your desk and all that was there was your harddrive and a stack of parts.”
But I would never work for an organization that would treat me in such a manner.
why do you?
As expected, no answer from the Hamster…
And so it goes…