Robert Pogson

One man, closing all the windows.

Why GNU/Linux for Android is the most important Linux project today

  • May 27 / 2012
  • 51
technology

Why GNU/Linux for Android is the most important Linux project today

sola writes that Ubuntu GNU/Linux is huge for the future of FLOSS and Linux because of its superior ability to use the power of modern mobile hardware. The same could be said for any GNU/Linux OS.

Android/Linux is a commercial and popular success at all levels because its price/performance was great and Google took the steps necessary to promote it to OEMs (not just M$’s partners). Android/Linux is thus a gateway to complete freedom to run hardware in the world. There is no longer any need for M$ to allow us to run our PCs if we used ARMed PCs. Using GNU alongside Android, as sola suggests or using GNU in place of Android makes sense. Either strategy opens a whole new ecosystem independent of Wintel and monopoly. The last barrier to entry, space on retail shelves, is gone when GNU/Linux is distributed on ARMed PCs.

As my brief exposure to an Android/Linux tablet revealed, many purposes of a PC need a keyboard and mouse or other precise pointing device. GNU/Linux can do that quite well and probably better than Android/Linux. In the future, I see Android/Linux either adapting to the potential of desktop applications better or GNU/Linux moving into that role on ARM. It’s all good and possible in a competitive environment. It does not look as though M$ will be much of a player without exclusive dealing…

see Why Ubuntu for Android is the most important Linux project today « sola's blog.

51 Comments

  1. Ivan

    Al Capone used his money to open soup kitchens to provide three hot meals a day at a time where 1 in 3 in the city was out of work. That’s not including the public service of transporting alcohol from Canada and selling it without cutting it with bleach or anti-freeze.

    Murdering bastard? Nope. He provided valuable public services without having to buy elections for Republicans.

  2. Robert Pogson

    Phenom complains, “Commusists and leftist always turn to global conspiracy to blame for the epic failure of their ideals.”

    Al Capone was a hero of Chicago… He was a murdering bastard. I assume corruption was involved to allow both statements to be true.

  3. Phenom

    “I suspect corruption on a global scale but have no proof.”

    But of course it must be a global conspiracy!

    Commusists and leftist always turn to global conspiracy to blame for the epic failure of their ideals.

  4. Robert Pogson

    Sierra Bravo wrote, “If M$ were a builder, they would have been sued to high heavens….”

    It is a wonder M$ weren’t punished several times over for their determined efforts to subvert the market over the years. I suspect corruption on a global scale but have no proof. If any Mom & Pop business tried the tactics M$ has used, they would have been sued out of business decades ago. The competition laws, the consumer-protection laws, RICO, etc. have all been bypassed with impunity yet M$ is still welcome in the Whitehouse. Even the Canadian Competition Bureau sits on its ass and stands by while US DOJ and the courts in USA allow M$ to write its “settlement”. Any criminal would love that kind of treatment. Bank robbers could “settle” for confinement to a cottage at the beach. Murderers could promise never to do “it” again.

  5. Sierra Bravo

    So as long as your front door is unlocked I can walk in to your house and take everything I want because you didn’t lock your door?

    A very poor example, @Ivan.

    This is more like a builder who, after taking my money for providing me a reasonably secure home, cannot even provide me a front door that could be locked securely.

    Worse, such doors are appearing at random parts of my home’s walls, and the builder wants more money to buy locks, as not only his doors, but even his walls are weak…

    If M$ were a builder, they would have been sued to high heavens….

  6. oiaohm

    Ivan
    “So as long as your front door is unlocked I can walk in to your house and take everything I want because you didn’t lock your door?

    Nice, Bob.”
    Problem is there is a hole in the law. Since you did not set foot on the land you did not trespass so you did not steal. Same reason why I can take a photo of you standing on your front law even if you are nude.

    Now if I have to stand on a ladder or something to see over a fence its an offence.

    Australian law contains a provision against accessing computers without permission. UK law did not at the time Google did it. Technically everything Google took was legal to take at the time.

    Even so passive snooping on wireless traffic is legal in all countries. Australia active snooping where you send packets to get more data is illegal.

    Wireless is a secuirty risk I am perfectly in rights to record anything that you transmit that enters my property or the foot path. Just hope that does not contain information you want no one to know in a unencrypted state.

    Wired equals privacy. Ivan you need read up on the laws of radio communication. You broadcast it you have basically given up your legal protections.

  7. Clarence Moon

    Japanese who did test everything

    I don’t know where you got that idea, Mr. Pogson, perhaps you dreamed it up because it sounds good to you, but you are way off the beam in terms of today’s manufacturing. Nothing is tested that way. Samples are extensively tested to ensure that the process is running in control, but otherwise things just ship. They do not manufacture bad ones, that is purpose of SPC.

  8. oldman

    “Every assembly and every assembled device manufactured these days has “quality-control” at every step otherwise junk and recalls happen.”

    This is true Pog, except what they use are special programs that run in memory. Once the burn in period is passed, the systems are either imaged with the appropriate OS install or sent out unimaged.

  9. Ivan

    No one should assume or expect privacy from what is broadcast in the open or is visible from the street. Go after the folks who set up the computers or developed the protocols that leak, not Google an innocent user of technology.

    So as long as your front door is unlocked I can walk in to your house and take everything I want because you didn’t lock your door?

    Nice, Bob.

  10. oiaohm

    Phenom this has to be a first both you and me agreeing on something.

    Something else we are fairly sure ASD is inherited in DNA. Mostly out side the effects of illness. Something important is lot of people before the 1980 with ASD did not get to breed either.

    Step back look at the broad picture of information and people trying to cook the books stand out.

    There are a lot of factors causing ASD to go up. Anti vaccine people also don’t understand that the ASD with or without vaccine shows up at the same ages. If vaccine was causing effect not all children get them at the same ages. I was one who did not get my vaccine shots on the same time lines. If you are ill at the time you cannot be given the vaccine if doctor is doing his/her job. This increase odds of adverse reaction. So children under good doctors get the jab at different times yet they show ASD at the same time as everyone else if they have it. So the claim simply does not add up.

    No matter how you cut it iLia the ASD and vaccine link does not pass inspection. Effects for it to be true don’t exist.

    There is correct data to attempt to build an anti vaccine case. ASD is not it.

  11. Phenom

    iLia, you are wrong about autism and vaccines.

    I am currently working on a project, aimed to simplify texts for people with autism, and I’ve had lengthy discussions with clinical professionals on the subject.

    The actual cause for the recent “boom” of autism is that science just recently learned to diagnose it properly. The problem is that autism (ASD) is almost never present alone by itself. It is always combined with other conditions – dyslexia, aphasia, retardness, just to name a few. In the past, autists were simply diagnosed by one of these other symptoms, most often being “retarded”. Nowadays doctors simply know better, diagnose the conditions better, and found it possible to improve the conditions of certain cases of ASD, if these other conditions are not too strong.

  12. oiaohm

    iLia “It seams to me that, oiaohm, you don’t understand one simple thing: vaccines didn’t affect the rates of infections, these rates were declining before the vaccinations started. But these vaccines affect the rates of autism.”

    Lot of what was diagnosed as autism today would not be diagnosed as autism in the 1980′s. The uplift has been diagnosing more minor grades of autism that would have been disregard as well. This is due to a book on mental diseases published late 1970~.

    Also at the same time as vaccines, treating Infertility stated so people with bad dna have been getting to reproduce.

    And finally what were people doing before offical vaccine to get kinds solved of Measles and the like. Its called sickness parties. 1 kid gets sick you expose all the rest to it. And sickness parties as a treatment method to reduce the disease start in the 1916-1920 the exact point it starts dropping. With a lot more worse adverse effects than vaccines like facial scaring and forever physical weaknesses.

    So since a method was being used before vaccines you should not see a major change with measles deaths. You will see a big change in those with adverse side effects.

    Vaccines reduced the adverse effects to Measles control. Just appears it does not remove them all.

    Due to the fact we have changed how we measure autism over the time we cannot use it as a benchmark. You would be better looking at seizures rates. The measurement of them have not change cover the time. seizures are a direct side effect of Measles and the vaccines.

  13. Robert Pogson

    Clarence Moon wrote, “You cannot manufacture things in the tens or hundreds of millions and inspect them.”

    That’s what the USA thought when it was making DRAM in the 1980s… Finally, no one would buy their stuff and bought Japanese who did test everything. Every assembly and every assembled device manufactured these days has “quality-control” at every step otherwise junk and recalls happen.

  14. Clarence Moon

    ell, somebody must be testing the components and installations of the components or there would be a flow of rejects.

    That is rather Stone Age, Mr. Pogson. You cannot manufacture things in the tens or hundreds of millions and inspect them. The Japanese figured that out decades ago. Instead, they and the rest of the world make things that are not defective using processes that they know are in control and not producing defective units. Read about it. You can start here.

  15. Robert Pogson

    oldman wrote, “Vendors like Dell, HP and IBM have no problem maintaining quality of hardwarw without having to install anything.”

    Well, somebody must be testing the components and installations of the components or there would be a flow of rejects. There are just too many things that can go wrong, even a sneeze.

    I remember a project on which I was a small percentage of the participants. At a planning meeting, it was decided that no time would be scheduled for the testing of the complete system because everything had been tested before. I warned against that but was overruled by higher-ups. In the end, one little device was a new part and heaters failed, frying all the other electronics being maintained at constant temperature. The project was seriously derailed. It may well be that servers can be built using trustworthy components with reliable people but it must cost extra. I would bet they are net-booted in the factory and everything is tested some way.

    I have worked in a factory assembly-line and know from hard experience that things go wrong and often in the worst possible way. I once built a cluster of servers and special-purpose PCs. We had redundancy everywhere except in one server. Guess which one failed (RAM) weeks after installation? There was a rare single-bit error and a whole dead bank. If we had taken more time to test, the single-bit error might have been found preventing downtime from the larger failure. We did test for a few hours. The random error took many hours to detect. Fortunately, I was able to reboot and keep the system going until I had time to fix it in the off-hours. There is no substitute for testing and the more complex the system the more important is testing.

  16. oldman

    “It is useful to install something in the factory to increase the probability of working on delivery but FreeDOS or GNU/Linux could do that”

    Not really. Vendors like Dell, HP and IBM have no problem maintaining quality of hardwarw without having to install anything. We have never taken delivery on any server with an OS installed. In fact with the exception of the 4 way servers that function as VMWare hosts, all of our systems are ordered driveless as we boot from SAN.

  17. Robert Pogson

    Clarence Moon wrote, ” if they read your blog, they would know that the total is 1,”.

    Nope, not even close. I built from parts 8 servers, paved over that other OS on a few and then there are virtual servers… I’ve installed GNU/Linux on servers far fewer times because mostly it was a dd copy operation rather than using an installer. I imagine guys like oldman have done many more and who know what OS they shipped with from the factory. It is useful to install something in the factory to increase the probability of working on delivery but FreeDOS or GNU/Linux could do that. No need to pay M$ for the privilege of shipping a working server.

  18. iLia

    These are people are only alive today due to usage of Vaccines in the past.

    It seams to me that, oiaohm, you don’t understand one simple thing: vaccines didn’t affect the rates of infections, these rates were declining before the vaccinations started. But these vaccines affect the rates of autism.

    from about one in 150 children back in 2000 to about one in 88 children in 2008, which is the last time official estimates were calculated. And interestingly, this steady rise in autism rates coincides directly with CDC-endorsed vaccination schedules that have also risen sharply since the 1980s.

    and In 1980 there were 1 in 1,000 children with autism

    By 2007 the chance of anyone in England and Wales dying of measles if no one were vaccinated was less than 1 in 55 million. The chance of being struck by lightning is 30 to 60 times higher

    Please, look at the graph and remember that vaccine was introduced in 1963 when only one person in 550 000 died of measles.

  19. Clarence Moon

    IDC and others have no way of knowing what servers I have created from PCs…

    Well, if they read your blog, they would know that the total is 1, from your frequent references to “the Beast”. Even so, I am sure that they do not care one whit. They are counting what is used in server system commerce and junk-box activities are not on their radar. Perhaps you are correct and hundreds of millions of rabid Linux fans are building servers out of spare parts right and left, grossly surpassing the numbers of Windows, Linux, Unix, and IBM servers flowing in the commercial channels. But it has no effect on commerce and is not of any interest to those whose income depends on that commerce.

  20. oiaohm

    iLia “Measles mortality” shows someone cooking the books.

    How does Measles effect humans. Sterility and Death. Yes Measles got as a adult equals Sterility so removing your dna from the DNA pool. So next generation there will be less deaths because you dna with weakness to the illness will not produce on.

    Mumps and rubella also contain the same trick. So they don’t have to kill you. This is why all three have a naturally dropping rate. They keep on systematically removing the people who can catch them and get adverse reaction either by death or Sterility. Nothing todo with better food and conditions.

    Next what problem have we caused. We have used Vaccines right. So a lot of people are alive who should not be if nature had be left alone. Yes there is a downside to using Vaccines. So far in every study all people who have adverse reactions to them are people who would not been born if the disease had be left run it course on their parents.

    Really the only valid way out is better DNA testing to map the people who should not be alive so need treatment with Vaccines to keep them safe. Even be able to assess on what kind of Vaccines they should get so not to give adverse effects. Some might be better to send to a island or something away from the diseases. These are people are only alive today due to usage of Vaccines in the past.

    The problem is Vaccines are not harmful to people the disease would not naturally eradicate. Vaccines are harmless in a large percentage of people the disease would naturally eradicate. In a very small percentage harmful to those who should not be since they would have been eradicated by the disease as soon as they catch it.

    This is the true reality of Vaccines. Double sided sword. Yes this can be a true argument in third world countries to let some diseases run there course heck intentionally spread them faster due to long term its going to be lower cost to eradicate the weak dna.

    iLia
    “So when an ordinary British criminal steals private data it is a crime, but when a huge multinational corporation that sell a lot of proprietary software (Google), does the same it is just OK and even good?”
    Of course you keep on over looking the fact UK told Google there was no secuirty risk so lead to Google collecting evidence proving them wrong.

    Yes I do think Google went too far. But I do think UK officials have a case to answer for as well.

    Even if Microsoft had done this with the background information I have seen I would be protecting Microsoft iLia. There is sometimes the wrong way to present an example of a problem. These are simple to see in hind-site at the time seam perfectly valid.

  21. iLia

    Stop, iLia. How is Google helping people be immunized against potentially life-threatening disease screwing the world? Immunization has been called “one of the Ten Great Public Health Achievements in the 20th Century” Give Google a medal for public service.

    And what about Bill Gates and his “Bill Gates and Melinda Foundation”? They spend huge amount of money to vaccinate the third world population.

    Does it make Bill Gates a good person and atones for his dirty tactics of promoting Windows and bashing Linux?

    Maybe vaccines “per se” are not that bad but mercury and aluminum which they contain are extremely dangerous.

    Vaccines Did Not Save Us! Two Centuries of Official Statistics — a lot of links and graphs. Enjoy the reading!

    Try to bing: bill gates eugenics. And pay some attention to the “related searches”.

    So google just collected what the criminals could

    So when an ordinary British criminal steals private data it is a crime, but when a huge multinational corporation that sell a lot of proprietary software (Google), does the same it is just OK and even good?

  22. Robert Pogson

    Clarence Moon wrote, “missing the “stealth market” that is somehow off the grid and invisible.”

    IDC and others have no way of knowing what servers I have created from PCs or how many copies of Lose X I have wiped. Stealth? Nope. Just doing IT right. IDC does not seem to track “others” very well… Why is that? Perhaps other OEMs are not “partners” of M$… Q4 2011, IDC reported GNU/Linux, that other OS and UNIX revenues as 18.4%, 45.8%, and 24.2% leaving 11.6% unaccounted. Is that no OS or mainframe or what? They carefully avoid telling what share Z OS and Power had. That makes their numbers hard to believe and certainly M$’s prices being so high their share of market revenue does not reflect units shipped. Then there are virtual machines… The millon busiest sites, according to Netcraft is plugged with GNU/Linux servers…

  23. oiaohm

    Clarence Moon this case your statics don’t line up with oracle or redhat sales numbers and stats.

    “I have to chuckle at the frequent claim that the industry statistics published in trade media are missing the “stealth market” that is somehow off the grid and invisible. Since the statistics do not support the desired conclusion that Linux is a big success, the statistics are thus “proved” to be wrong.”

    There is nothing stealth about it. There are just ways the market works. You are taking one set of numbers in solo and trying to make a case Clarence Moon. The problem is they say a different picture when seen as a whole.

  24. oiaohm

    iLia “If a better place means “it is perfectly OK to steal private data of millions of users”, then Google is on the right way.”

    Think UK is one of the rare exceptions where they did steal the information. In hindsight it was most likely a mistake todo it to attempt to prove point to patch of government twits. Big thing is the fact it was neglected in the first place so google was able to steal information that way. So could any other criminal.

    iLia you really need to pull Cisro study vaccine and autism. Result was scary. Lot of adverse vaccine reactions turn out to be DNA based. Light dosage of vaccine gives autism and other effects due to minor brain cell damage. Real dosage of the virus gives death due to complete brain destruction. Vaccine will give the person a body chance of reacting before death is a outcome. We need cheaper dna scanning to locate people who will react adversely to the vaccines. Also once we can locate them we are stuck in the trick place where we still might have to give them the vaccine anyhow since the reaction is less than what the disease will do.

    Of course someone with the markers might loss brain cells they never will use so never get any side effect at all. So the DNA only tells you the person has odds of bad outcome not 100 percent sure will.

    Basically the vaccine is less harmful than the real disease but its not without issues at times. To know the people that are going to react badly we need more information about that person.

  25. Clarence Moon

    Linux percentage is for sure larger than the numbers you are selling in the hardware sales numbers

    I have to chuckle at the frequent claim that the industry statistics published in trade media are missing the “stealth market” that is somehow off the grid and invisible. Since the statistics do not support the desired conclusion that Linux is a big success, the statistics are thus “proved” to be wrong.

  26. Robert Pogson

    Stop, iLia. How is Google helping people be immunized against potentially life-threatening disease screwing the world? Immunization has been called “one of the Ten Great Public Health Achievements in the 20th Century” Give Google a medal for public service.

  27. iLia

    Google set out to make the world a better place

    If a better place means “it is perfectly OK to steal private data of millions of users”, then Google is on the right way.

    On the right way to the New World Order.

    Google has not done anything to screw the world????????????

    Check this one:

    Google is currently working with the Centers for Disease Control, state and local health agencies

    and then try to bing:
    vaccine autism link

    or maybe that one.

  28. oiaohm

    Viktor in fact auditors producing reports do at times collect and preserve child porn for future criminal usage. Google had reported what they had done and they were holding it. Also Google did inform most countries that it was going to be doing wireless access auditing from street view cars.

    This is different to German politician who collected stuff and told no one what he was upto.

    iLia
    “Sorry, but checking whether wifi is protected with password is one thing and downloading personal stuff from peoples computers is another. To actually download stuff you should write software the way it know what to download and where to look for it.”

    To generate assessment of how bad the flaw was those extra software. Its also the fact the UK Police claimed person private information was not at risk due to open wireless access points. So google just collected what the criminals could.

    There is a lot more to that stock pile of information google collected in the UK. Any country that did claim that personal data was not put at risk by open wireless access points google did collect personal data. So places like Australia Google did not collect personal data. So the fact the UK people had it collected they have no one else to blame bare there own law enforcements incompetence. Do not evil is very questionable here. Proving what evil person could do does put oneself at risk.

    Really iLia and victor that anyone could do this no government group is checking for this problem shows a real issue.

    How hard would it be to really fit all police cars with wifi checking box to locate people without problems and make them fix it. Google can hand over the tech they have used it has proved it works.

    iLia
    “And Microsoft produces FLOSS (ASP.Net)”
    Pick another example please. ASP.Net is worthless without a legal .net runtime to use it with. If MS would sort out legal issues with Mono.net then you could claim this but not before.

    iLia
    “creates open standards”
    Then proceeds not to follow them in there own implementations so making the standard documents worthless. Remember MS created the RTF open standard as well. Its part of Embrance Extend Extinguish system Microsoft documented in anti-trust cases. Release open standard. Get people to take it. Extend it and not document. Then slowly kill off the open standard then take the market share.

    Microsoft uses open standards as weapons. This is why checking if MS is conforming to there own standard documents is critical if they are not in an area they are loading weapons to harm others.

    iLia
    “hosts FLOSS projects and participates”
    Only if your project runs on windows. You cannot host at Microsoft if your program is to interface with windows from another platform and it does not run on windows. Also at first MS limited to there own licenses. Yes to get projects they have been forced to come to table.

    iLia
    “participates in the development of Linux kernel.”
    Because they have to or be in breach of contract with Redhat. Microsoft windows has to run on Redhat HyperVisor and MS had to add the code to support Hyper-V to the mainline Linux kernel as part of a contract agreement to get access into the server market. If the mainline kernel removes MS drivers under valid grounds MS has to pay out Redhat.

    Sorry most of your stuff with the correct background information about contract requirement information and so on with Microsoft is a laugh.

    In fact MS tried dumping hyper-v drivers on the Linux kernel and not maintain it. When the kernel went to remove them Redhat reminded them of their contract requirements and the drivers remove from kernel.org was going to be breach. Yes its a case of MS not reading the fine print and Redhat lawyers being better.

  29. Robert Pogson

    iLia wrote, “what is the difference between Microsoft and Google?”

    M$ set out to screw the world while Google set out to make the world a better place, one search of the web at a time. M$ laughed at Google’s business model because they could not comprehend giving anything away.

    e.g. Paul O in response to a meeting with Intel about supporting hardware, wrote an internal memo:
    ” Anticipate – the next disagreements with Intel will be over MIDI (Opcode OMS and Blue Ribbon Wave Table Synth won’t get along well with NSP), and MPEG (direct competition to Indeo 4). We should take these to Intel, with appropriate candor, and by appropriate I mean not sharing our strategies. Rather, we should say, “in the interests of furthering PC technology we are introducing these in the next six months. We want the maximum cooperation possible with you and, as a long standing partner of MS who’s success is important to us, we are telling you now.””

    or M$’s strategy of “evangelism”:
    “The key to stacking a panel is being able to choose the moderator. Most conference organizers allow the moderator to select the panel, so if you can pick the moderator, you win. Since you can’t expect representatives of our competitors to speak on your behalf, you have to get the moderator to agree to having only “independent ISVs” on the panel. No one from Microsoft or any other formal backer of the competing technologies would be allowed – just ISVs who have to use this stuff in the “real world.” Sounds marvelously independent doesn’t it? In fact, it allows us to stack the panel with ISVs that back our cause. Thus, the “independent” panel ends up telling the audience that our technology beats the others hands down. Get the press to cover this panel, and you’ve got a major win on your hands.”

    To the best of my knowledge Google has not done anything to screw the world but has provided great service at a great price competitively.

  30. iLia

    They (Google) downloaded emails, text messages, photographs and documents from wi-fi networks as they photographed virtually every British road.

    Sorry, but checking whether wifi is protected with password is one thing and downloading personal stuff from peoples computers is another. To actually download stuff you should write software the way it know what to download and where to look for it.

    It is no coincidence, it was make deliberately. No bug here.

    Google don’t be evil!

    By the way Google produces and sells proprietary software:
    — Picasa
    — Google Earth
    — SketchUp
    — Google Toolbar
    — Google Desktop

    And Microsoft produces FLOSS (ASP.Net), creates open standards, hosts FLOSS projects and participates in the development of Linux kernel.

    So what is the difference between Microsoft and Google?

  31. Viktor

    Google is in trouble because they sent a report to the UK government on how bad peoples home secuirty is.

    Fantastic delusions you have there, Ohio Ham.

    Let your doctor prescribe you some good pills.

    What will you state next? That it’s OK to collect child pornography because you want to research the phenomenon in depth? That’s how a German politician tried to explain child pornography on his computer. The federal diet didn’t buy it and revoked his immunity. The Regional Court’s judge didn’t it buy it, either. The Federal Court of Justice didn’t buy it, either.

    But one shall buy it that Google collected all this data because they wanted to show how badly secured some WiFi networks are? LOL. LOL. LOL.

  32. Viktor

    [...] not Google an innocent user of technology.

    Google is innocent! Sure. It’s the users’ fault, after all. That’s the most favorite excuse in La-La-Linux-Land. What urged Google to collect this data? Were the CEOs threatened at gunpoint range?

    Google is a frakkin’ business that will do whatever they deem necessary in order to make money. They are in this respect in no way different from Microsoft. They have only fooled the loons, to whom they occasionally throw some bones in the form of (FL)OSS, chanting: “We’re not evil!”

    What a farce!

    Pogson, the Google shill.

  33. Robert Pogson

    iLia wrote, “steal private information”. When referring to Google.

    No one should assume or expect privacy from what is broadcast in the open or is visible from the street. Go after the folks who set up the computers or developed the protocols that leak, not Google an innocent user of technology.

  34. oiaohm

    iLia sometimes you need to understand context. Google action did not break any encrypted wifi network. Only accessed those without passwords.

    Google is in trouble because they sent a report to the UK government on how bad peoples home secuirty is.

    So yes at times trying to do the right thing can get you in hell. Informing police how bad the problem is. Australian police force here in areas are doing the same thing now after Google street view information on how many wireless access points are not secure was provided. Basically street by street visits based off the google provided information to close the wireless access points.

  35. oiaohm

    Clarence Moon
    “Who cares, Mr. Oiaohm? Once the money has been paid, the purchaser could send all those servers out on a garbage barge and sink them into an abyss out past the continental shelf.”
    Of course it never crossed your mind that Windows only servers would not sell and don’t sell. Then to go look why.

    “Of course they do not do that and they operate their equipment as it was purchased. Someone might virtualize a Linux server if they had some minor use for such an environment, but if it was using 100% of the server resources, then it would be silly to run it virtual.”

    Now the percentage 99+ is ones that can run Linux direct. Basically you are still a idiot.

    vsphere-hypervisor at core is Linux. So if your hardware is not Linux compatible not compatible with the major hypervisor. Lot of cases the MS products are cheaper OEM. Yes so that windows license on the box in fact might be the one that ends up virtualised for a minor role.

    MS with hyper-v have spend money to make sure Linux works so that Windows is not formatted off new machines to install Linux based hyper-visors then windows installed inside that.

    “You do lose a little if not a lot. It is just a form of the laws of thermodynamics as applied to servers.”

    Simple issue is most servers don’t run at 100 percent. 2 physical servers eat more power than 1 physical server even allowing for effectiveness problems of virtual. If you are worried about thermodynamics ie heat generation/waste you don’t run x86 you run powerpc or arm based servers. Windows does not run on either. Powerpc is IBM major sales.

    Yes heavy loads end up on Linux mostly because Linux is more virtual friendly. So windows loads take a percentage hit that Linux loads don’t when running virtual.

    Redhat license sales to after market is also a interesting number Clarence Moon.

    The numbers you are reading of sales without context don’t tell you much Clarence Moon. Its only part the picture. Did those companies by a redhat subscriptions direct and place redhat as primary on that machine that came out with OEM windows. We don’t have ground surveys that are required.

    Linux percentage is for sure larger than the numbers you are selling in the hardware sales numbers. Question is how much Clarence Moon. I would not be suppised by 60+ running Linux daily.

  36. Clarence Moon

    Basically 99+ percent of the market could be running Linux without removing the OS that was shipped on the hardware.

    Who cares, Mr. Oiaohm? Once the money has been paid, the purchaser could send all those servers out on a garbage barge and sink them into an abyss out past the continental shelf. Of course they do not do that and they operate their equipment as it was purchased. Someone might virtualize a Linux server if they had some minor use for such an environment, but if it was using 100% of the server resources, then it would be silly to run it virtual. You do lose a little if not a lot. It is just a form of the laws of thermodynamics as applied to servers.

    I am only discussing commercial reality here and whether you like to play with Linux or with pet rocks is all the same to me.

  37. Clarence Moon

    I think that correlates with the competence of the buyer

    Possibly true, but that would be immaterial. It correlates with sales in the server market, Mr. Pogson, which, at the end of the day, is all that really matters for a commercial product like a server OS or a server package.

  38. Robert Pogson

    Viktor wrote, “Better head over to Microsoft and read up on what Active Directory is. Because like so many people spouting “Let’s just use LDAP!”, you don’t have a clue.”

    I have use inActive Directory several times and it sucked bigtime. I don’t want M$ controlling anything on my systems. I use SSH to script my systems. There’s nothing inActive Directory can do to systems that SSH cannot and I am totally in control with it with no obscurity at all. The last time I used M$’s services, I had a few percent of machines ignoring updates. It was random, a different set of machines each time. I was using all the recommended tools and I still had to manually trigger updates on 5-7 machines every time. I could not manage the updates of my non-M$ applications. I could not monitor processes closely. Conversely with SSH I have been able to manage many seats as if they were one, mine.

  39. oiaohm

    Robert Pogson issue with active directory is not Linux client management but windows client management. Lot of windows client management has been designed around this.

    Mind you windows 8 arm tablets look like to do management on them you will have to pay a MS subscription that is going to sux.

  40. oiaohm

    Viktor for Linux ldap, pam + cfengine does everything Active directory provides to windows. Yes cfengine can do group policy equals to a Linux system. cfengine supports auditing properly actively directory does not.

    There is also freeipa.org that is coming along nicely but they have not got into the audit part yet.

  41. Viktor

    GNU/Linux can do just fine with openLDAP and PAM and run that on a desktop.

    Better head over to Microsoft and read up on what Active Directory is. Because like so many people spouting “Let’s just use LDAP!”, you don’t have a clue.

  42. oiaohm

    Clarence Moon
    “Maybe in the boondocks where you claim to live, Mr. Oiaohm, but in terms of servers sold annually in the modern world, it is dead last, behind Windows, Unix, and IBM Mainframes/Midis in that order.”

    I need to kick you for being a dumb tiwt. Have you not paid attention to the stuff oldman has said.

    So a person buys a server with windows on it. Linux service could be installed in a virtual environment inside that. IBM Mainframes also support running Linux Virtual. Same with most of the Unix mainframes.

    Basically 99+ percent of the market could be running Linux without removing the OS that was shipped on the hardware.

    Even Microsoft submits patches to the main Linux kernel to make sure hyper-v will work with Linux.

    This is the reality the server room is not black or white with windows machines. Lot are part windows part Linux. The pure percentage sold Linux only are black and white. They are just running Linux no windows or other OS’s.

  43. Robert Pogson

    oiaohm wrote, “Biggest hold up is Active Directory.”

    I doubt that. It’s the inability of that other OS to run a desktop unaided. Cripple-ware requires inActive Directory. GNU/Linux can do just fine with openLDAP and PAM and run that on a desktop.

  44. Robert Pogson

    Clarence Moon, writing of GNU/Linux on some other planet wrote, “in terms of servers sold annually in the modern world, it is dead last, behind Windows, Unix, and IBM Mainframes/Midis in that order”.

    I think that correlates with the competence of the buyer. Anyone familiar with GNU/Linux on servers will have little need to buy a server pre-installed, but folks using that other OS may not have a clue.

  45. Finalzone

    Not a whisper of “GNU” at all and even no grouping of Android with Linux either. Rather he clearly makes the distinction between Linux and Android as between the desktop and mobile uses.

    Android is another flavour of a Linux based system build with dalvik comparing to other distribution that mainly use GNU framework.

  46. Ray

    I don’t think Ubuntu for Android is the same as porting GNU/Linux to Android. For one, you don’t have to port the kernel, or the GNU tools.

  47. Clarence Moon

    Really Linux is not last place in the server world.

    Maybe in the boondocks where you claim to live, Mr. Oiaohm, but in terms of servers sold annually in the modern world, it is dead last, behind Windows, Unix, and IBM Mainframes/Midis in that order. In terms of revenues received for operating system sales it is similarly dead last, but by a wider margin.

  48. oiaohm

    Clarence Moon “Linux as a server OS is a good choice to promote. It is in last place, but at least it registers on the meters used to gauge usage.”

    Really Linux is not last place in the server world. There are a lot of areas it dominates. Super computer and web servers.

    Even Microsoft people today will normally be running Linux virtual machines of something at a min.

    Clarence Moon basically its getting to the point you with Linux and the Server room that you will have a Server room without windows but you will not have a server room without Linux.

    Biggest hold up is Active Directory. But that will change before end of year with entry level Linux systems for small business contain it.

    Yes the windows machine management has been where Linux has been weak. This traces to illegal action on Microsoft part.

  49. Clarence Moon

    sola writes that Ubuntu GNU/Linux is huge…

    He said nothing like that, Mr. Pogson. Rather, he said:

    Desktop Linux is slowly gaining market share but its advancement is excruciatingly slow. The desktop itself is loosing market share to mobile operating systems like Android and iOS…

    Not a whisper of “GNU” at all and even no grouping of Android with Linux either. Rather he clearly makes the distinction between Linux and Android as between the desktop and mobile uses. GNU is the losing element in an environment that is itself pretty much of a total loss. I installed Ubuntu myself not too long ago and I note that all of the GNU utilities are completely superfluous. I don’t think they are even installed anymore.

    Stallman himself hasn’t made the news for years, it seems to me, and the last time that he did was due to some personal traits that many found disgusting. I think you should abandon the GNU cause and focus on what might have more of a chance to survive in the future.

    Linux as a server OS is a good choice to promote. It is in last place, but at least it registers on the meters used to gauge usage.

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