Robert Pogson

One man, closing all the windows.

M$ Disturbs an Ant-hill

  • Jan 18 / 2012
  • 23
technology

M$ Disturbs an Ant-hill

Judging by the number of comments on an article in The Register on M$’s specificiations for certification of “8″ on ARM hardware, M$ is in for a marketing disaster. Potential consumers of ARMed PCs are forced to choose between:

  • buying one not certified for “8″, or
  • forgoing use of GNU/Linux or Android/Linux or any other brand of Linux on the ARMed PC.

It is a debatable point whether the OEMs or consumers will decide to ship/buy ARMed devices without “8″.

So far it seems no OEM is considering an exclusive relationship with M$. The monopoly is not there. Further, OEMs who do put out a few models of ARMed PCs with “8″ may be wasting their money. Same with retailers. At best, it seems quite possible retailers may stock shelves with “8″ only to find consumers don’t want it just as they didn’t want “Phoney 7″. M$’s scheme may backfire in that they will be shipping “8″ on machines that will not sell. That is not a sustainable business model.

The usual article about M$’s perfidity gets a couple of dozen comments. This one has 150 and counting. I was going to add my own but it seems redundant. Every angle is covered. see the comments

23 Comments

  1. oiaohm

    Oldman
    “Then you are quite lucky, because support for Windows on linux virtualization solutions bordered on the unusable up until about 5 years ago.”
    Really that is true for Windows and Linux. Commercial solutions have been ok for that complete time. Remember I am not FOSS only.

    Not all my hardware is Windows compatible either.

    Phenom MS has not reported any revenue growth from 2010 to 2011 for desktop OS’s in fact reduction. Numbers held up by server growth. Could be a sign of higher thin client usage.

    Sorry MS has lost some market in that time. Mats Hagglund be reporting how much but who knows.

    Phenom most of my windows usage is to run Internet explorer to test websites that they work. Running in wine is not a valid test. vhd that are free now do that job very well without requiring a windows license. Yes my requirement for the past 10 years of windows has not been high stablity item just long enough to confirm that something is not bust.

    If internet explorer was on Linux I would have no windows usage most of the time.

  2. Phenom

    No, Mats. Windows does not lose ground. The base expands with platforms, where Windows is simply not there – iPhones, Androids, iPads, etc.

    The increasing revenues for MS prove that they lose nothing yet.

  3. kozmcrae

    “Do you think that you experience is gooing to change the fact that the applications that I wish to run dont run on linux or that the FOSS…”

    You are still pulling that applications crap. Your applications don’t mean she it! You know that stupid 1% Linux users crap you hang onto like some kind of Holy Grail? Well you are less than 1%. Nobody needs your applications except you and about 100 other people.

    Those are exaggerations to be sure, but the point is clear, you do not speak for the vast majority of computer users. You are not their spokesman @ldman. I know you’d like to think you are but you are not.

    I’ll be honest with you, I think you are lying through your teeth about using KDE continuously for the last 10 years as your *only OS*. I’ve got a valid copy of Windows XP around somewhere, but I don’t count that as “continuous use” of Windows. Booting up a Linux Live CD now and then doesn’t count as “continuous use” either. I’ve heard it all before.

  4. oldman

    “oldman over the same time frame the copies of windows I have run have been majority in virtual machines.”

    Then you are quite lucky, because support for Windows on linux virtualization solutions bordered on the unusable up until about 5 years ago.

    But in the end it comes down to a choice of which OS owns the hardware. IMHO windows is the winner because of the sheer breadth of hardware support by vendors.

  5. Phenom

    Who cares, Ohio?

    When you use mostly Windows, as is the case with Oldman, why on earth should he run it in a VM under Linux? That would be pure waste of resources. Further, you don’t need many versions of Windows that often. Windows has something linux does not – quite good backward compatibility.

  6. oiaohm

    oldman over the same time frame the copies of windows I have run have been majority in virtual machines.

    Linux in Linux is not that hard. Please don’t presume Linux users will not be running more than one version side by side.

    Virtualisation Linux has two major options openvz/containers and proper visualization.

    Multi Linux on a system is not a bother. Same with multi copies of windows. You must have been doing nothing that required the 3d card from Linux.

    vmgl is something I have loved. Linux inside Linux equals full opengl speed for the guest Linux.

  7. oldman

    “I kind of doubt that you’ve had 6 continuous years at the GNU/Linux desktop ”

    Your right Mr. K. Ive actually had over 10 years continuous experience using KDE, which I prefer to the pile of trash that is gnome. ANd the above experience was on top of an additional 12 years experience running in a pure X windows environment (starting in 1990 running on an IBM RS/6000 running AIX 3.2).

    And even if I didnt have this experience, what of it. Do you think that you experience is gooing to change the fact that the applications that I wish to run dont run on linux or that the FOSS that who probably think runs “just fine” actually doent cut it for my use as defined by the tools that I have now.

    “Windows sucks, GNU/Linux is fun to use. I’m very grateful for it.”

    Irrelevant. An OS is nothing more than a vehicle for getting work done. work is done by applications. The fact that you find linux “fun” is irrelevant to that reality. If applications that run on Linux meet your needs, that is fine for you. The fact is that linux based applications do not meet MY needs, and since I not you are the determiner of what works for me, that makes Linux unsuitable for my needs.

    Oh and BTW, I have never dual booted Linux. All of my linux environments of linux have been implemented in vmware virtual machines for over a decade. In fact my setup is probably more flexible that yous, because I can and do run multiple version of linux on one system.

  8. oldman

    “I don’t have any anti-malware running, nor do I re-re-reboot endlessly.”

    You always make it sound like windows is this ticking time bomb that explodes regularly. Perhaps if I was forced to run it on 8 year old hardware that we inadequately provisioned with RAM and running a dog slow cheap non intel cpu, I might be singing a different tune. My reality is that I have no problems with windows. From my brand new “fire breather” portable running windows 7 x64 to my 8 year old dell running windows XP SP3, all run the applications that I need them to run without effort or event. That is my reality, whether you like it or not.

    “Each to his own, I suppose, but I really don’t understand how you can know both OS as well as you do and still recommend that other OS.”

    Its actually quite simple Pog. It is the application that is my focus. the operating system is simply not an end in and of itself. The OS just the software layer between the application and the hardware that it runs in. If an application requires windows, I recommend a computer running windows. If an application runs on linux I recommend linux.

    Its that simple.

  9. Robert Pogson

    When Phoney “7″ was released people laughed at it. They remember that and are not interested in second-rate software. Ask M$ why they released an unfinished OS. They panicked and rushed to market. That was very foolish and now they pay the price by being ignored.

  10. Clarence Moon

    So your summary of the differences between smart phone OS products is that WP7 originally did not have cut and paste? I understand that it does have it today, so does that mean that they are all more or less equal in the benefits they provide to the end user?

    I think so. I would class it as similar to the existence of tires on new autos. Sure there are differences and there is a choice of brands and some brands, for example Firestone, are tarnished with gaffes from the past, but they all just roll along for the most part and people do not really make car buying decisions based on the tires that are on the car.

    I think that it is somewhat interesting that Microsoft is getting a royalty payment from the top Android phone makers that is about equal to the license fee they are apparently charging for WP7. Of course they have paid the big bucks for patent claims by others, too, but it is a factor in the phone OS revenue business.

  11. Kozmcrae

    “ROFLMAO.”

    Wow, where’d you get that? Scrape it off the floor of “your Mommy’s basement”?

    I replied in kind. That’s all the effort that comment required.

    “All my applications work fine, and windows 7 x64 stays out of the way.”

    Ditto, only with KDE4. I’ve used the GNU/Linux desktop for over 6 years now and with the Windows desktop longer. Do you have as much experience with the GNU/Linux desktop as you do with the Windows desktop? I kind of doubt that you’ve had 6 continuous years at the GNU/Linux desktop (I’m not talking dual boot crap, totally dependent on GNU/Linux). That would make me more qualified than you to make a judgment on both of them. Windows sucks, GNU/Linux is fun to use. I’m very grateful for it.

  12. Robert Pogson

    Clarence Moon wrote, implying that nothing really matters, “What difference does it make to the end user whether the OS is WP7, RIM, Android, iOS, or any other?”

    It’s true that most of those technologies can do a wide number of tasks, but as far as I know the only one that wasn’t born with cut-and-paste was Phoney “7″. It’s the joke of smart phone OS and no one I know takes it seriously. I think even the masses view M$ as a one-trick pony and they don’t see any draw towards M$ in smart thingies. Further, many of the consumers are concerned with price and M$ makes sure prices are high. M$ just makes no sense on small cheap computers. I have been watching a bit of TV in my retirement. I see dozens of ads for Android/Linux smart thingies for every one from M$. I think M$ does not really see it has much chance and is not wasting its money on going all-in. The deal with Nokia has been a disaster.

    A quick survey of popular providers of smart phones around here:
    Rogers – 34 smart phones with 24 Android/Linux, 9 blackberry, 1 Phoney “7″ and a few iPhones.

  13. Robert Pogson

    oldman, you should get a job as a salesman for M$. Clearly the world is still clinging to XP. There’s a reason for that. It’s a dog but it’s a familar dog and they are not chucking it until the machine dies. Even some are moving the old OS to the new machines. The Wintel treadmill is stuck. As wonderful as “7″ may be, the world has not been fooled into buying it. With so little love left in the world for M$ there will continue to be the truly disaffected who will switch to GNU/Linux or Android/Linux or anything but M$’s stuff.

    I do a lot with my PC and most of it is my work, not me fixing the inadequacies of GNU/Linux. If anything I resent not having enough hours in a day to explore GNU/Linux fully. I am content with the applications I have. At the moment, I am running Chrome browser, terminal, Orage calendar, clipman, ksnapshot, several databases and web services. I don’t have any anti-malware running, nor do I re-re-reboot endlessly. Each to his own, I suppose, but I really don’t understand how you can know both OS as well as you do and still recommend that other OS.

  14. oldman

    “Get a life. We all know that tire old phrase. Linux just works, Windows you just work at it.”

    ROFLMAO.

    All my applications work fine, and windows 7 x64 stays out of the way. And I give thanks that I dont have to patch together using different pieces of FOSS the functionality that I have now with windows based desktop applications.

  15. Kozmcrae

    “Sorry, I’m not using Linux, my OS just works.”

    Get a life. We all know that tire old phrase. Linux just works, Windows you just work at it.

  16. Clarence Moon

    I don’t know that WP7 is even that high, Mr. Pogson. On the other hand, who else is even selling a phone OS? By that measure, WP7 has 100% of the phone OS software market.

    What difference does it make to the end user whether the OS is WP7, RIM, Android, iOS, or any other? I cannot see where any of the apps look at all different. I don’t care what is used unless it affects the apps. So far, there is nothing that seems to offer any change.

  17. Hanson

    “Hey, black yourself out why don’t you.”

    Sorry, I’m not using Linux, my OS just works.

  18. Robert Pogson

    Clarence Moon wrote, “what the market will decide?”

    I am convinced the market will reject “8″-only ARMed devices. Even users of that other OS don’t want to be forced to buy a new gadget to get “9″. The lock-in is obvious. This will be the final push off the Wintel treadmill. M$ is blessing ARM and there is choice on ARM. “8″-only ARMed devices put OEMs seriously at risk of producing units that don’t sell. I don’t think OEMs will be opening new factories to produce “8″-only ARMed devices. They might produce a few weeks of units to see how they sell before ramping up. I predict these units will sell like Phoney “7″ stupid phones. What’s their share? 5%?

  19. Kozmcrae

    “Hey, why wasn’t your site blacked out?”

    Hey, black yourself out why don’t you.

  20. Clarence Moon

    I am so surprised at your lack of conviction, Mr. Pogson. On the one hand you continually speak of the inherent advantages of Linux, specifically in regard to use on ARM based devices and chant about how Microsoft’s efforts have been totally ineffective in that product market. Here, though, you suggest that Microsoft’s simply specifying that Win8 compatibility will require use of secure boot standards is a malevolent act that is sure to lead to the exclusion of Linux “choice” on these devices.

    Which is it? Are you secure in your beliefs or are you afraid of what the market will decide?

  21. Robert Pogson

    Don’t worry. I am thinking of proposing that the world campaign against Wintel the same way that SOPA was defeated. There are several other causes worthwhile. If large corporations are allowed to lobby legislators/leaders, so should users of IT.

  22. Hanson

    Hey, why wasn’t your site blacked out? No solidarity with your comrades who are fighting SOPA? I’m disappointed.

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