Robert Pogson

One man, closing all the windows.

More Stats on Android/Linux

  • May 17 / 2011
  • 47
technology

More Stats on Android/Linux

According to Google:

  • 100 million Android devices have been sold, more than Apple…,
  • 36 OEMs, 215 carriers, and 450K developers push Android/Linux,
  • 310 different devices sold in 110 countries,
  • 400K activations daily, 4.6 per second,
  • 200K available applications exist, and
  • 4.5 billion installations of applications have been done, an average of 45 per device.

If that does not get your attention, consider that the rate of uptake is still increasing… at about 100% per year. 8-()

Naturally there are limits to growth and the performance of Android/Linux could max out upstream suppliers real soon. Assuming supply gets fixed, eventually everyone from 8 to 80 will own one. That would only take 3.4 years at the present rate. I imagine this all will accelerate as the price of smart thingies decreases. There is no way this growth in use of Linux will somehow be confined to smart thingies. All forms of computing will shortly be involved with Linux if they have not already been.

47 Comments

  1. oldman

    “I really don’t think non-geeks care much about applications either.”

    But they do care that it plays well with others and offers zero hassles. MeeGO, being an also ran has no guarantee of seamless interoperability and being different will probably offer enough hassles for the non geek to make it untenable commercially.

  2. oldman

    “Non-geeks don’t give a damn about the OS. They buy what they find on the shelves.”

    But they do give a damn about software and meego has nothing the non geek wants. THey will go for the windows 7 based netbook first.

  3. oldman

    “Fujitsu also announced a MeeGo-based netbook for distribution in Asia Pacific”

    So one Asia Pacific OEM bit the bullet. I stand corrected. Lets see how they do, because MeeGO is a non entity as far as the average non-geek user.

  4. Robert Pogson

    The major OEMs are gambling that they can control the market. With smart phones, for example we see few OEMs doing anything. The major OEMs are locked-in to wintel and will have to have a few more quarters of tight margins to wake up to the change.

    Fujitsu?
    see Intel showing
    Fujitsu also announced a MeeGo-based netbook for distribution in Asia Pacific

    Here is a video showing three shipping netbooks with Meego:Lenovo, Fujitsu and a Russian outfit.

    see Fujitsu PR
    “Asia Pacific, 11 February, 2011 — Fujitsu PC Asia Pacific today announced the debut of Fujitsu’s first MeeGo™ netbook based on the Intel® Atom™ processor, the LIFEBOOK MH330, opening up infinite social capabilities for tomorrow’s computing experience.

    Fujitsu counts as major, about 10th place right behind Sony and Apple in shipments of PCs.

    see IDC

  5. oldman

    “There are tons of devices out there like this tablet running Meego.”

    Citing one device available in limited quantities from your favorite computer odd lot seller does not constitute “tons of Devices”

    Show me a major OEM supporting MeeGo Pog.

  6. oiaohm

    Also oldman. http://www.raspberrypi.org/ This is important to watch.

    Target 25 dollars working unit. This means the max sale by Microsoft standards for a version of Windows for that machine is 10 percent of its price. What is 5 dollars. Current base sale price for windows is about 15 dollars. So if long term result of this is MS Windows selling for 5 dollars MS office selling for 10. Even if MS sells as many units as they do now their profitability will harmed quite badly. Yes in some cases the screen keyboard mouse power-supply and arm board could be the same price as 1 x86 process chip with nothing else.

    Yes the powersupply keyboard mouse …. All could be worth more than the main box.

    This device is a secondary usage as a robot control computer. Basically arm is coming to the desktop. Problem is when it turns up it will mostly be network storage with some local processing.

    I can tell you now that the device you see there is not final production design. There are still a few tweaks to make it more useful. Yes scary idea that MS keeps selling the same number of units now profitability will be down.

    Zero effect on the Linux world.

  7. oiaohm

    oldman You are just full of trouble making.

    Suse/Novell and Red Hat are not the only 2 commercial grade distributions. Yes the arm space has its own like Wind river that is from intel. Yes I know completely screwy. Intel makes and provides support for one of the major commercial distributions on arm.

    Scientific Linux that is the commercial/free maintained by cern and others. Also supports arm if required. Same with Redhat.

    Not on redhat made list of supported platforms. Serous-ally arm is kind of a mess. Applications can be made generic for arm. But kernel support and installation system of arm can be unique per arm chip.

    Arm also gets worse than you can dream because arm does not have video cards like most of us know. On a arm soc chip display output maybe from 1 company. 2d acceleration from another. Opengl support from different company. Video playback acceleration from another. Now you have to bridge those 4 so they work as one. Nice lovely. Only one problem you have 4 drivers from 4 different hardware makers for a video card. That all have to get along.

    This is a problem you don’t have on X86. Linaro is working on that issue of video card support on arm. X11 was not designed to cope well with multi driver output to single display. Core sections of DRI2 will be altered to suit arm soc chip requirements.

    People have not noticed how often android devices are in fact using the same soc chips. Not the complete range of arm out there. Yes exactly the same O my god issue why distributions don’t claim full generic arm support.

    When Linaro work completes is when we may see standard out the box distrobutions for arm from redhat and others. Not custom order. Of course oldman I can understand you not knowing that you can custom order arm from Redhat. I don’t have supply contracts with SUSE so they might as well.

    This arm soc nightmare is why Windows CE and Windows 7 embedded has one of the highest ratings failure on arm chips of any OS used in embedded. Everyone else has been doing custom per Soc chip solutions.

    Meego is also selective on what Soc chips it runs on with arm.

    Main reason why embed don’t source video card as one piece. Is that is cheaper and more power effective to source the best parts of the cards from different makers. Each maker of video cards is good at something but each maker of video cards also sux badly at something.

    Issue is you cannot really refer to Arm like x86 at this stage. There is more diversity in Arm and its taking Linux a little while to get its head around it for desktop usage.

    Yes a long time ago arm devices were just embedded without graphical displays. Live was a lot simpler then.

    oldman “The original point under discussion was that somehow users of ARM based mobile devices that were dissatisfied with the functionality of Android based application (i.e. found them too trivial) would magically transition to ARM based Linux”

    oldman you are basically a year too early. Linux mainline and android kernel are merging as mainline Linux picks up the features android requires. With Linaro the graphic subsystem of android and mainline linux kernel will merge. Then the magic functionally of being able to transfer Android devices to full blow Linux without much work will be here. As long as the TPM system on the Android device does not stop you from installing.

    Yes Meego and Android in time will basically work on the same base hardware.

    oldman you have overheard the long time plan from the Linux world. Yes it does not work today. But it will work that way in time.

  8. Robert Pogson

    Amen. It is truly amazing the loyalty M$ has induced in a portion of the world even though M$ should be seen with the same contempt that Gaddafi or Osama bin Laden are because M$ is out to get us. Reading US DOJ v M$ is like a journal written in Gaddafi’s dungeons. Even governments who are supposed to regulate free trading have been loathe to punish M$’s actions which have stifled innovation around the world. The idea that the whole world need not bother to produce competing software because M$ is so wonderful is a bad joke, really bad. The idea that M$ should be able to tax the world’s production of PCs is obviously wrong in a free market yet it is tolerated and not punished as a conspiracy to suppress competition. It is too bad the dinosaur will have to fall under its own weight and stink up the place instead of being killed and buried.

  9. aikiwolfie

    What is the deal with “The Other Dave”? Did his iOS device suffer a spontaneously cracked display or perhaps explode for no reason at all? Did he touch his iPhone’s “magic” spot and drop a call? Maybe his Windows Phone 7 device failed to update properly and is now as good as a house brick. Maybe he’s just missing “basic” features like cut & paste or proper multi-tasking?

    Fact of the matter is. Apple after all their hype and law suits are still playing in a niche market of people with more money than sense. Microsoft on the other hand are dying in x86 land. None of their recent OS releases can be considered a market success.

    Windows Vista was an out right failure as are it’s love children Surface and Windows 7. Azure is hardly talked about any more. BPOS can’t keep it up even with blue pills. Zune never made it out of north America and is now dead. Kin was still born. Windows Phone 7 is a market failure and a technical failure given that it went to market missing basic features that have existed since before the modern GUI was invented. OH! And we shouldn’t forget to mention Microsoft now admits 1 in every 14 downloads is Windows malware.

    Not a great track record there for proprietary ville and we’ve only scratched the surface. Go troll somewhere else for Microsoft.

  10. Robert Pogson

    Those two particular thin clients are running GNU/Linux when they boot up complete with a local browser and some other apps. They are proper desktop computers.

    There are tons of devices out there like this tablet running Meego.

  11. oldman

    “I was just minutes ago reading about a new ARMed thin client.”

    The original point under discussion was that somehow users of ARM based mobile devices that were dissatisfied with the functionality of Android based application (i.e. found them too trivial) would magically transition to ARM based Linux. Thin Clients, while they may indeed be near and dear to your heart, have NOTHING to do with this discussion.!

    What is evident however is that since there is no commercially viable desktop alternative environment for ARM based mobile devices that have proven themselves beyond Apple iOS and Google Android.

    There is no commercially viable mobile desktop linux offering, Pog

  12. Robert Pogson

    The similar TrimSlice unit ($200) does use Fedora, I believe. That’s the development wing of RedHat so there may be support from RedHat available sooner or later.

    see TrimSlice

  13. Robert Pogson

    I was just minutes ago reading about a new ARMed thin client.

    Wyse T50 comes with ARM and Ubuntu onboard. It’s a nice unit, with 1gB RAM, 1gHz CPU, and gigabit/s networking. Can do 720p video on VIA Chrome chippery. MSRP is $238 but a few outfits sell it for a few dollars less.

    It’s not Debian GNU/Linux but Ubuntu, based on Debian.

  14. oldman

    Lets try that again…

    “Nonsense. These vendors supply systems installed with Debian GNU/Linux. There are also some consultants/system integrators who use Debian GNU/Linux. Hotspots for those seem to be Brazil, Germany, Italy, UK and USA.”

    WhoHoo Pog, I’m impressed there are this many! However, a few isolated OEM’s and some consultancys scattered across the world does not even begin to consitiute a credible commercial support network for Debian.

    Who are these people Pog, do they have any special access to the Debian core developers? can they guarantee on demand access to those core developers to companies who are willing to pay for that service?

    There are only two commercial entities with the creds and support structure to provide commercial grade Linux distributions – Suse/Novell and Red Hat. Neither of these companies have an ARM port, and Red Hat has opted out of the personal desktop market (though they still support enterprise workstations).

    Face it, Pog. Debian is a non entity business wise. No major vendor of ARM based devices is going to go anywhere near them.

  15. oiaohm

    Some of these things make me laugh at the level of incorrect.

    oldman there is a porting operation to move libreoffice to android native code support. Major issues are graphical. So >There is NO way to execute Linux binaries on Android< This is false. The path todo it is ugly. Android native code support running like a chroot bingo it works. Issue is now getting from the chroot to graphics. Also not impossible if the application is QT based also wayland based will not be too bad in future either. X11 based kiss tail good by. So the sooner X11 disappears the sooner Linux applications running on android become more possible.

    oldman reason for google sections is that phone makers like Motorola were making Linux phones before Android existed. Also with custom stacks. Google severed up something they knew. Result is LG now allows particular models of phones to be unlocked to install meego or android.

    oldman there are also items like Xoom that are part android part normal Linux. Surprise surprise only 1 kernel running both. The kernel is hardware support. Before android lot of the hardware support was custom in each device makers own trees. Android is a step forward. Question is are makers going to take the other 5 step forwards.

    oldman "I really doubt that very many people would even consider moving from commercial applications running on Android to recompiled FOSS running on a recompiled Linux desktop based" Show done no homework. Applications running under android to run on Linux normal desktop project exists for that http://www.icedrobot.org/ . So in time Android and Old school distribution provide applications will intermix with each other. Compared to emulation of windows or anything like that over head costs will be quite min. Same kernel just different graphical rendering. Android will really be nothing different to the large Linux world than another toolkit like QT or GTK. So no major overhead cost. Compared to emulating windows android will be cheap on overhead. So it a gain of Linux distributions wanted closed source applications can be got for android in time.

    oldman the Linux world is changing I know is hard to accept.

    The Other Dave. The data leak secuirty fault was fixed mainline android. Their is a major issue with how fast makers of devices push out updates also followed by how carriers allow updates.

    In fact there are particular phone networks where RIM, Windows Mobile and WP7 flaws are left unpatched as well due to carrier interference.

    Only phones currently that don't have this issue are iphones, meego phones and unrestricted android phones but this is only true if people plug their phones into a computer and do a firmware update.

    The complete rest are secuirty nightmares. Yes this include the majority of phones out there that a symbian.

    The Other Dave. Before making comments so the so called secuirty of stuff. ie your wp7 claim was and still is false on particular networks. Please make sure you know the topic and the issues that caused it. So you don't annoy people like me who do know the topic and the issues.

  16. oldman

    “What makes you think they have anything against selling GNU/Linux? They don’t.”

    And you know this how Pog? have you actually talked to a hardware vendor? Do you really believe that they are going to take on the cost integration and maintenance of Linux for their hardware? THe so called extra money that they reap will be more than eaten up by the increased costs of maintenance, remember there is no commercial Linux desktop distribution for ARM, and if you think any vendor is going to base their business on the whims of the all volunteer community that maintains Debian, you are kidding yourself.

  17. Robert Pogson

    What makes you think they have anything against selling GNU/Linux? They don’t. It’s just that in Wintel they got to keep $50 or so per unit while charging the buyer $100 before retail markup and they felt they would have a drop in revenue if they switched. With ARM there is no drop possible because they are making nothing from that other OS.

  18. oldman

    “One thing that will happen is that folks will find some of the apps available for Android a bit trivial and will wlecome GNU/Linux or something else on these machines.”

    Pog, I really doubt that very many people would even consider moving from commercial applications running on Android to recompiled FOSS running on a recompiled Linux desktop based on a distribution that is about a non-commercial as you can get.

    Even if a customer were to consider this, what makes you think that mobile hardware vendors would touch such a hack?

    As far as the “other” options are concerned, what option exists that the makers of these devices would accept selling?

  19. Robert Pogson

    A lot of that is semantics. An OS is an OS managing hardware and other resources for the system whatever you call it.

    ISVs have no problem writing applications for Android/Linux regardless of the licence of Android/Linux. The applications do not have to be licensed the same as the OS. One can run proprietary/non-free stuff on GNU/Linux for instance. If the ISVs/hardware guys want to tweak Android/Linux for their purposes, the licence for distribution of the OS would be an issue. I expect most will find keeping the code in-house temporarily is all the advantage they need to gain consumer advantage for their product/brand. They do not need to do much to keep that mind-share after a while.

    One thing that will happen is that folks will find some of the apps available for Android a bit trivial and will wlecome GNU/Linux or something else on these machines. Nokia was getting close to that with MeeGo but M$ intervened. While Android on ARM is good enough for lots of applications, it is still an interpreted system and slower than native code. GNU/Linux will have some share for those who want/need better performance for some reason.

  20. oldman

    “I expect that after Android becomes more mature Google will see the advantages of using GPL. Otherwise they will increase the costs of software development and maintenance weighing on them. ”

    You are dreaming Pog. Google is a commercial entity that has found a way to leverage open source for their gain without cutting off the commercial development the the mobile device vendors want in place. Going GPL at a future point would be tantamount to bu$ine$$ suicide.

    “Otherwise they will increase the costs of software development and maintenance weighing on them”

    You forget Pog, that Google has been developing their own code for years basically without community help. It may slow them down a bit, but slowing down the development cycle brings stability that has many benefits that there is no biannual forced death march in Android is a good thing.

  21. oldman

    “So tell me “oldman”, how do you run Android without Linux?”

    As it stands now, you Don’t. Where we part the ways is what the use of the Linux kernel MEANS.

    What I find to be fundamentally a load of cr-p is the notion that because Google cut development costs by adapting a OS kernal to their needs, that this counts for something. I contend that is does not.

    My contention comes out of the following two observations:

    1) Google has gone out of its way avoid the GPL on the portions of the platform that make android What it is. As a result, the same commercial ISV’s that develop for the iPad will be developing for Android as well. Where it “linux” in the classical sense, it would have been under the GPL.

    2) There is NO way to execute Linux binaries on Android, even if they ware cross compiled for ARM and somehow gotten to execute natively, because none of the layer upon layer of support libraries are there. Again, If google had wanted to make this a “linux” in the classical sense, they would have found a way to include what you call the GNU toolspace the way that Apple included the BSD toolspace in OS X. They chose not to – I contend because they were not creating another Linux, but a new OS entirely.

    “I can understand why you don’t want Linux to be any part of it, but it is. It’s a major part of it. ”

    Don’t presume that you understand, anything about my thinking, Mr. Chapman. If you did, you would have uunderstood my points and we would not be having this discussion.

    On the other hand, I believe I do understand Mr. Chapman, why you and Pog (and a large number of Linux true-believers) want so badly to turn Android into Android/Linux. It allows you to declare victory for linux, when all that has really happened is that Google a bu$ine$$, has taken a development short cut to built a new commercial operating system.

  22. Robert Pogson

    There are many parts of Android. Much of what Google has developed/derived is covered under Apache Software Licence v 2, some is BSD and some is GPL (kernel, mostly).

    The Apache licence is confusing to me and Apache appears to be confused by it as well as they state they have not been able to determine whether it is compatible with the GPL…

    The Apache licence confuses me because it allows derivatives to be produced but also allows distribution of source or object code… That seems to permit binary modification/patching but also distribution of object without source code but at the same time requires the licence to be passed on. The GPL would be so much simpler… I expect that after Android becomes more mature Google will see the advantages of using GPL. Otherwise they will increase the costs of software development and maintenance weighing on them. Linus has near-total control of Linux and he likes GPL even if he is not fond of FSF.

  23. oldman

    “Google wants to develop the product fully in-house. They will release the source code when it is ready and not before. It’s their code. They can do what they want with it.”

    Absolutely Pog. However, by tightly controlling 3.0 they are also cutting he community off from “innovating” (aka cloning) 3.x until the 3.1 release…

    IF it happens.

    And BTW this is bu$ine$$ Pog, Scr-wgle doesn’t have to be nice to enyone!

    Actually, whether Android is or isnt open source is not as important as the fact that the Android part of the package is NOT GPL, and does not force ISV’s who choose to work commercially to divulge their source code.

  24. Richard Chapman

    More from the first post link: “With the exception of brief update periods, Android has been available under a free software/open source license since October, 21 2008.”

    It seems for some people who post here English isn’t their first language.

  25. Robert Pogson

    “Google has said that the next version of Android, dubbed “Ice Cream Sandwich”, will be open sourced “by the end of the year,” and that it will not open source the current Android incarnation, the tablet-centric Honeycomb, before that time.”

    see The Register – Google won’t open source fondleslab Android before ‘year end’
    Honeycomb stays closed until Ice Cream Sandwich

    Tell the whole story. Google wants to develop the product fully in-house. They will release the source code when it is ready and not before. It’s their code. They can do what they want with it.

  26. The Other Dave

    Still pretending it’s open sores huh? Many links have been provided with Google reps actually coming out and stating that the next Android OS is not going to be open.

    But you just keep sitting there with your hands over your ears with the ‘la la la – can’t hear you routine’, because it’s funny to watch you flounder.

  27. Richard Chapman

    “oldman” What part of Android cannot run without Linux don’t you get? Android is a huge success. I can understand why you don’t want Linux to be any part of it, but it is. It’s a major part of it. So tell me “oldman”, how do you run Android without Linux?

  28. Robert Pogson

    Linux has supported ARM more than other *NIX-like kernels. That’s why Linux is often chosen for new development and especially for “embedded” stuff because there is very little expense to using it.

  29. oldman

    “OpenOffice.org is available on ARM native code at…”

    All that mean is that there is a machine translation. Without the GNU toolspace, X and quite a bit of other code that needs to be there, Openoffice won’t run on android in its native form, even if it is recompiled.\

  30. oldman

    “When you can run Android without Linux, “oldman”, let me know.”

    Nice try Mr. Chapman, but any kernel could have been under davlik, the Linux kernel code was just too damn convenient. On the other hand the GNU user space no to mention X and quite a bit of other code needs to be there to run openoffice, and that code isnt present in android.

  31. Richard Chapman

    I guess I have to do some hand holding here.

    “At Google, the team led by Rubin developed a mobile device platform powered by the Linux kernel.” Read further down on the link I provided on the first post. Linux was part of Google’s Android on day one. I does not say it was not part of Android before that.

    Does it really matter if Linux was not part of Android 1.0?

  32. Robert Pogson

    Of course, most UNIX kernels could work, but drivers for specific ARMed SOCs etc. would be a problem for most other kernels. Drivers would need porting most likely. Linux does not copy/imitate UNIX in that respect.

  33. Zombie Chan

    “When you can run Android without Linux, “oldman”, let me know.”

    I believe, Android 1.0 was without the Linux Kernel.

  34. Richard Chapman

    When you can run Android without Linux, “oldman”, let me know.

  35. Robert Pogson

    As you know, Android native mode is a Dalvik virtual machine. The code is interpreted so the performance would likely be poor. Android has a built-in machine-mode that can be used for particular applications and that should work. OpenOffice.org is available on ARM native code at http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/o/openoffice.org/openoffice.org-writer_3.2.1-11+squeeze2_armel.deb.

    There is a reader available. see https://market.android.com/details?id=at.tomtasche.reader&feature=search_result.

    Of course Google Docs is accessible and would give good performance running on the server as it does.

  36. oldman

    “It’s not Linux I suppose, any more than a cake isn’t flour”

    When you can run openoffice native on the standard unhacked android, let me know.

  37. Robert Pogson

    see http://android.git.kernel.org/
    “To clone one of these trees, install git, and run:

    git clone git://android.git.kernel.org/ + project path.
    To clone the entire platform, install repo, and run:

    mkdir mydroid
    cd mydroid
    repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git
    repo sync”

    Gee… That sure looks like source code and it is available under a Free Software licence…

  38. The Other Dave

    Oh and Android isn’t open sores. Just thought I’d remind you all of this.

    Your champion is laughing at you hard.

  39. The Other Dave

    “Many applications installed on Android phones interact with Google services by asking for an authentication token – essentially a digital ID card for that app. Once issued the token removes the need to keep logging in to a service for a given length of time.”

    This is epic failure. iOS and WP7 aren’t anywhere close this degenerate to offer a full on offering to hackers. But hey, Loonix you rock!

  40. Robert Pogson

    “potentially”
    “Apps that use ClientLogin should immediately start doing so over encrypted, https channels, the researchers said. A more robust authentication protocol known as oAuth will also close the authToken capture vulnerability, although https should still be used to prevent synced data from being intercepted.

    The researchers also suggested Google improve its security by shortening the length of time authTokens are valid and rejecting ClientLogin requests from insecure http connections.”

    see The Register

    Seems like it is not actually a defect of Android/Linux but the authentication used by various apps. Everyone should be using https for sensitive data these days. Google could fix the problem by requiring usage of https everywhere but many apps/services probably don’t feel it necessary considering the type of data transferred.

  41. The Other Dave

    Here’s more Android stats from:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13422308

    “More than 99% of Android phones are potentially leaking data that, if stolen, could be used to get the information they store online.”

    Oh noes! Looks like open sores is an unsecure steaming turd compared to something robust and solid like Windows Phone 7 or iOS

    Better luck next time freetards!

    :O

  42. Richard Chapman

    Goggle: “Is Android Linux”. First hit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_%28operating_system%29

    Second sentence, Fourth paragraph: “The Android operating system, including the Linux kernel, consists of roughly 12 million lines of code including 3 million lines of XML, 2.8 million lines of C, 2.1 million lines of Java, and 1.75 million lines of C++.[22]”

    It’s not Linux I suppose, any more than a cake isn’t flour.

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