Everyone is using GNU/Linux except OEMs and retailers. They are locked in to the revenue sharing from that other OS. Demand change.
GNU/Linux is an operating system. It allows us to run computers and create, find, change and display information better than that other OS:
- Of the million busiest web sites 66% use Apache
- The London Stock Exchange is switching to GNU/Linux because it works
- 90% of the top 500 supercomputers use GNU/Linux
- Brazil installed 356800 GNU/Linux desktops in schools
- 72% of businesses prefer a nine-year old OS to M$’s current stuff
- that other OS is still full of holes
The reliability, performance, and low cost of GNU/Linux is what you need. Go with GNU/Linux on server, database, network and desktop for one low price, $0, for the licence.
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“Everyone is using GNU/Linux except OEMs and retailers.”
That is like saying everyone is using Linux except most people. I don’t think that it sounds any better than “Most people do not use Linux.” It just makes you wonder about the sanity of the person saying it.
I was writing of classes of people, their organizations. Schools, businesses, governments, stock exchanges, police departments, etc. use GNU/Linux widely and yet OEMs are not vigorously trying to sell GNU/Linux systems to them. See, for example, Dell.com. If you did not know GNU/Linux was in there somewhere you might never find it. No other business hides their stuff. Retailers deal with wholesalers/OEMs and push what they have. If they do not have GNU/Linux it does not end on store shelves.
I have read many instances of folks embracing GNU/Linux and having it work for them. I have read only a few cases where folks were using GNU/Linux and dropped it, usually because of some external pressure. OEMs and retailers could make a lot of money selling GNU/Linux but they do not even try because M$ pays them to avoid it. The payments are diverse and subtle, like “marketing funds”. This allows the retailers to sell systems with that other OS for less than a free OS ( no licence fee ) with identical hardware because the OEM artificially raises the price of GNU/Linux by putting extra stuff on GNU/Linux systems. There is no business reason for OEMs to do that except to mess with GNU/Linux. I have only seen two or three examples of HP or Dell selling the same hardware with GNU/Linux and that other OS side by side so the OS has to compete on price. That messes with competition and is not what the consumer wants.
I question the motives of posters who attack other posters, e.g. “sanity”. This is your final warning, A-C. Be kind when you visit my home or you will not be invited.
One problem: The applications. Both APIs aren’t perfectly compatible, so they’ll crash often
If the source is open the API can always be changed. If the source is closed sometimes the binary API can be accomodated (Wine).
In education we do not usually look at applications but the tasks one accomplished using those applications. If you can accept non-identical ways of getting the same tasks done there is no problem switching apps where necessary.
In my school I have moved a bunch of teachers from M$ Works to OpenOffice.org. These programmes are quite different and yet the teachers are able to do the same task. We only had to convert several templates to work with the newer application. I heard Munich had hundreds of templates but they got it done. They now have 15000 PCs running OpenOffice.org and thousands of them are running GNU/Linux, too.
“I was writing of classes… etc. use GNU/Linux widely and yet OEMs are not vigorously trying to sell GNU/Linux systems to them. See, for example, Dell.com.”
That should be more of a clue to you than it seems to be, Robert. Most people would think that the OEMs have come to the conclusion that there is no desirable business opportunityh in trying to sell Linux to these groups. Now you can say that all the OEMs are mistaken and your analysis is the correct one, but you are looking kind of lonesome.
“Be kind when you visit my home or you will not be invited”
Well, Robert, compared to the kind of words that I find directed at me from your side of the fence, I don’t think that what I wrote was all that abusive, but I would agree it was not pertinent. I am sorry if that offended you. It was meant as a jibe, not a slur. I will just leave it all out in the future.
ASUS saw that there was a market for GNU/Linux and could not keep up with demand. They were alone in the market for several months and no-one objected that that other OS was not on the devices. They could not keep them on shelves. Retailers were asking for supplies and had to wait weeks. Additional shifts and suppliers had to brought in.
ASUS is an OEM.
Globally, GNU/Linux is still quite popular on netbooks.
Thanks. I was not offended. After years of teaching it takes a lot to offend me but it was tiresome.
“ASUS saw that there was a market for GNU/Linux and could not keep up with demand.”
ASUS could not tolerate the return rates and the lack of buyer interest, particularly in Asian markets, Robert, so they cancelled further production. Once XP was available for the netbook, sales took off and virtually 100% of netbooks sold today use Windows 7 as the platform.
ASUS never cancelled production, only shipments to USA. The rest of the world has no trouble getting a netbook with GNU/Linux. ASUS never had an extraordinary return rate. Dell didn’t. Why would ASUS?
40% of netbooks sold last year used GNU/Linux. Most netbooks are not sold in the USA.
Dell – one-third with GNU/Linux – same return rate as XP.
ASUS even with good sales and demand from consumers and retailers stopped shipping to USA.
China lists 3000 hits for netbook linux on alibaba.com
You can still buy eeePCs with GNU/Linux if you know where to look: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/274383864/Asus_Eee_PC_900A_Atom_N270.html
It is easier to find a Dell there with GNU/Linux. too:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/313806568/100_original_Dell_Latitude_13_Linux.html
“40% of netbooks sold last year used GNU/Linux. Most netbooks are not sold in the USA.”
Where did you get that factoid, Robert? Not from a real market survey, I would think. Citing the references in this Ali Baba site doesn’t seem to prove anything at all. They are selling from old stocks of devices that are surplus from the original trade and that argues more for the notion that there was insufficient demand for them originally else the stocks would not exist. These are leftovers, in other words, and prove my claim rather than yours.
They’re selling them… That means people who have access to them want them. I thought that was obvious. If they were on the shelves here people would buy them too. That happened. Denying cannot make it go away. ASUS doubled and redoubled production for months before XP came on the scene and others jumped in.
The USA buys a small fraction of the world’s PCs. Same for netbooks.
see http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10410237-16.html
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS6889644915.html
The article mentions 32% but there is growth so I should have written the share is about 40% now. Although none are seen on shelves in North America there is a lot of growth elsewhere. It’s the price. Netbooks here start around $250. Elsewhere they start around $100 because they can with ARM and GNU/Linux. The prediction is that in a few years GNU/Linux will dominate on netbooks once again. That other OS dropped a billion dollars when XP was dumped on netbooks to compete on price. That is not sustainable when netbooks are above 90 million units annually at prices less than a licence for “7″ and “7″ does not perform nearly as well as GNU/Linux on netbooks.
“They’re selling them… That means people who have access to them want them.”
You are just fooling yourself, Robert. These units were manufactured up to two years ago and they are still for sale. That means that people who have access to them have not bothered to acquire them. You have frequently published these Ali Baba links in support of your wild claims, but it seems rather feeble. I had never heard of this source and I am much more familiar with computer sources than the average guy in the street, so I am pretty sure that no one else has ever heard of Ali Baba either. Did you find it through Google?
“That other OS dropped a billion dollars when XP was dumped on netbooks to compete on price. That is not sustainable when netbooks are above 90 million units ”
Well, Robert, you are just not thinking clearly here. It is likely that the price for Windows on a netbook is less than the price for Windows on a desktop or notebook. I don’t know that to be a fact, but it really doesn’t matter. The incremental cost of a license to Microsoft for Windows 7 is zero since the OEM is doing all the fulfillment. So if Microsoft gets $1 per system, it is still $90 million in their pocket which is $90 million more than they would get from refusing to deal.
Microsoft can’t do much about that other than ride it out and try to upsell customers who gain entry at the low price level. They will continue to do that. Why would they stop?
Microsoft is a fantastic money machine at the momemnt and it is still growing in terms of annual revenues and profits. No one is going to pull the plug just because the returns drom from fantastic to outstanding. Look at SCO, they went from poor to nothing and they are still going on and on like the battery bunny.
So, your argument is that GNU/Linux is not available retail in the US because consumers are not demanding it but it is available in China because the world is not demanding it. That seems contradictory to me. China is a very price-sensitive market because a lot of people are becoming just prosperous enough to buy their first PC, a netbook. If there are netbooks kicking around anywhere that are not being sold in the USA they may well find themselves being sold in China.
Alibaba is a huge business-to-business organization. You can find suppliers of anything in any region of the planet. It is not just China. You can find suppliers of GNU/Linux netbooks in Alaska with it (1).
Of course the OEMs love a cash cow but they are riding the thin edge of knife-blade. If they hop off either side they are likely to see a drop in revenue. Depending on someone else’s product to make your margin is extremely risky for a manufacturer. They are in for a world of hurt if a competitor breaks ranks and starts pushing GNU/Linux and selling at $50-$200 lower price. M$ has managed to get its best buddies, the top 5/6 PC makers to cooperate but “others” is 30% of PC volume and there are hungry people down there willing to take risks. We see that in smart-thingies. No one wants to wait for M$ to provide a platform because their competitors are not waiting around. We see in China thousands of enterpreneurs finding GNU/Linux gives a low barrier to entry in the smart-thingy market. They all have basically the same cost for hardware. The guy with the lowest price gets to ramp up volume. The lowest price is zero for software.
M$ can do whatever it wants but the volume of units is just too great for them to maintain monopoly by cutting prices. A product with their stuff will always cost more than the others. M$ is sitting out ARM because it cannot compete without a monopoly. ARM will enter the PC market generally later this year. By next year the monopoly will be shaky. We should see OEMs of PCs selling ARM next year. Then what will M$ do? Upsell ARM? Nope. ARM is designed for lowest cost. Upselling will not work.
Even in x86, we see AMD and VIA making advances now that Intel is behaving legally wrt to exclusive dealing. Once ARM pushes the x86 OEMs they will have to adopt GNU/Linux to drop prices. In three years the world will be quite different, especially retail. No one will shop in the big boxes if they can buy on the web at half the price at the low end. Another factor will be SSD which will become mainstream soon. ARM and SSD performs very well. There is no advantage to buying x86 even if the CPU is more powerful because ARM will be able to do the job well enough to please most consumers.
There’s more on a recently announced vulnerability of that other OS: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/19/win_shortcut_vuln/
If cost, anti-competitive acts, and re-re-rebooting don’t steer people to GNU/Linux, surely this malware nonsense will. Even with “autoplay” turned off, the default setup of “7″ runs something on the malware on a USB key. see this video: http://www.youtube.com/sophoslabs?gl=US&user=sophoslabs#p/u/0/1UxN7WJFTVg
How can users of that other OS sleep at night?
“So, your argument is that GNU/Linux is not available retail in the US because consumers are not demanding it but it is available in China because the world is not demanding it.”
I don’t think that I said that at all, Robert. Is that what you understood me to say? Let me rephrase it then.
The fact that Ali Baba has lots of Linux netbooks for sale means that world-wide people are not buying them since the available stocks are leftovers from production runs two years ago that were never sold out. Demand is so slight that they cannot seem to rid themselves of the inventory even at fire sale prices.
Is that clear enough for you?
“The guy with the lowest price gets to ramp up volume”
Do you think that is the only factor or even a controlling factor? If so, how is it that Hundai and KIA are not selling very well? Why did Yugo not catch on in the 80s? Why does HP out-sell the cheap competitors at retail? Why doesn’t Samsung sell as many MP3 players as iPod, it does exactly the same thing and costs about 1/3 as much. You have to consider that your theory is badly flawed.
“We should see OEMs of PCs selling ARM next year. Then what will M$ do? Upsell ARM? Nope. ARM is designed for lowest cost. Upselling will not work.”
Nonsense, Robert, it always works. Almost a hundred years ago, Sears invented the notion of merchandise categories as “good, better, best” and invented the loss leader concept as well. People buy what they can afford, not what is the least expensive. They will buy a Lexus instead of a Toyota or a Lincoln instead of a Ford if they have the means. To date, whenever Linux has been offered on a computer line, it is the extreme low end of the price and has the lowest performance. People are all accustomed to the more expensive model being better than the less expensive.
How many years now have you been preaching your gospel of low price and how much demand has been created? You have to frequently deny the validity of the statistics providers in order to keep your faith alive. You know that is just wishing and hoping and that if there were any truth to the matter there would be some more positive evidence.
“How can users of that other OS sleep at night?”
Well, Robert, for one thing I have some AV (free from Microsoft) installed and for another I don’t have Bob around to stick USB sticks in my machines. I think that someone ought to report Bob to the authorities since what he is doing is against the laws in most countries, too.
I don’t understand why there would be multiple users anyway on a personal computer. After all, it is my computer and I don’t share it with anyone. And I have more than one.
Personal computers these days have multiple users often: M$ doing what it wants to do, 47 malwares doing what some creeps on the web want done, a dozen services watching over something, and several processes started by the user.
HP sells about 20% of PCs. Others sell 80% of PCs usually at lower prices (exceptions might be Apple and Toshiba, I would guess). The most sold item will be something novel or something a bit better than the cheapest items. I, personally, usually choose something in the middle of the price-range so I get better than poor quality but I am totally unwilling to pay for the latest and greatest thingie. For example, when I build a PC, I usually take last year’s model of CPU at $200 rather than this year’s model at $1000, unless I really need the throughput and the top model is the lowest price per unit of production. That rarely applies to desktop PCs.
“Personal computers these days have multiple users often:”
You are, of course confusing the term multi-user with multi-task with that claim, Robert. There is still only the one user, myself.
Nope. That guy in San Diego using your PC as a spambot is a user. Check your accounts. He may call himself USPS.
One reason that other OS is so frail is that there are assumptions throughout that there is only one user on a system. For example, this vulnerability stems from the assumption that the proper user created the .lnk file so it is safe. The fact that it can come from the network or USB device was not considered when this “feature” was introduced. Also, they could have left the icon as data… Why run/execute anything? M$ has done this a lot. Remember the active cursor thing a while back?
“Although none are seen on shelves in North America there is a lot of growth elsewhere. It’s the price. ” – Halfway true, but I know some coworkers and friends who are coming over more due to the quality issues, they typically report the FOSS is not as slickly branded as the commercial alternatives from Redmond and Cupertino, but “under the hood” the quality of FOSS beats them hands down.
There is obviously disagreement about what “quality” means in software. Some people think it’s rounded corners on windows or transparency. Some people think it is responsiveness. Some people think it is feature-set. It all depends on what you want. As an individual I did not mind too much that that other OS crashed or picked up malware. I just plodded ahead because, in spite of that, I could get my work, and play, done. When I became a teacher using PCs in my classroom that became totally unacceptable because I knew my students deserved better. I knew code I wrote could be debugged and would not crash or become infected. I began to seek better software and found GNU/Linux. Since about Vista, more “ordinary” users of PCs have reached their personal breaking point of satisfaction with M$. People were buying faster PCs only to have them run more slowly and they still picked up malware. I know the useless kind of complexity that M$ introduces to impress unsophisticated users of PCs is the source of most of the vulnerabilities and I hate it. Others have amazing patience with crapware. One of the few supporters of that other OS left in my school says she is happier with the devil she knows. What she does not yet realize is that GNU/Linux is not devilish.